Redemption, being saved from hell, is that what the gospel message is all about?

If that was so why did Jesus spend 3 1/2 years preaching the "Kingdom is at hand" before going to the cross to redeem mankind?

I ask this of serious/concerned Christians, those who believe they know Christ as their savior and perhaps wish to know Him as their Lord and not of anyone else, please?

Thank you

 

Jesus repeatedly refers to the kingdom of heaven, the kingdom of God, my kingdom is not of this world. The arrival of the Messiah and the subsequent sacrifice on the cross is the final sin offering in faith as prescribed. The resurrection is victory over the flesh and death. The Kingdom of God is within you, says Jesus to the Pharisees in Luke 17:22. God's love demonstrated in Christ is the present domain of the kingdom that we are a part of daily. We accept the fact that Christ will reign when He returns.

 

Indeed, I counted 88 times in the gospels. For all of them to speak of it it must have meant something more special than we have been given to consider. Being 'Born again', is only mentioned once by Jesus. Strange, that by the time the creeds were written, no mention of the Kingdom is evident, only the message of redemption. Ever wonder why the church left it out?

We know from reading the Bible, Jesus had these two messages to be spoken of from Himself. What happened that only one made it through from the first century, since both must go hand in hand if we are to grasp the full meaning of Christ coming in the flesh? The reality of the Kingdom [within you]to become an actuality, is yet future, when He comes again to "make all things new".....But what will it mean for the redeemed? Will the simple plan of salvation that speaks of accepting Jesus as savior, suffice in bringing one into the knowledge of the Father, His Kingdom? What is required of the redeemed of the Lord, who say so? Ps107. Will joint-heir-ship with Christ be for the nominal Christian,---- and now the emergent church's, "cotton candy" Christian?

Let me try to explain from the beginning.

This is a bit much to post up but I didn't know where to cut it off for fear of being incomplete:

Ephesians 1:1-12 (KJV) Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Question:


Based on the above by Paul, what do you believe God's original intention was for Adam [mankind] had Adam not disobeyed?
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Thank you, Jester, for your Biblical input. It's refreshing to read sincerity.

 

I just believe that God gave Jesus to die for us to save us. It is belief in Him and acceptance of Him that saves us. We are to be holy as He is holy. We can be holy. But we can't be perfect. If we were perfect, we wouldn't be here, that's obvious. I know that God gives us free will and choice. I also know that I know that I know EXACTLY where I was and where I am now with Him in my life.

I do attend a small church in the Benson area. I went there 3 times before I knew that this was where I was to be.

You talk about a realtionship with Him. You are right that is the very thing that is important. BUT! The relationships people have with Him are not all the same. Meaning that since we all are different and have different lives, He deals with us personally. Your relationship with Him has nothing to do with mine nor does mine have anything to do with yours.

I try to pray everyday. I don't always do it and that is not good. And I don't always go to Him with the things (it should be everything) I should. But you see, when I don't and I get all messed up, I realize that I should have went to Him first. Well, that's called "learning a lesson". God IS in the teaching business, you know.

We are not all the same and God knows this since He made us. So He cannot deal with us all the same.

 

ORMLY taking the congregation by the hand...

 

My point in the thread is to ask the question, why did He save us?

However, Jesus said this in Matthew 5:48: "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect".

What do you believe He means by that with us still being here??

That's good. I believe everyone should have that assurance. However, is that a point in time of our salvation when we can stop striving/attaining a more perfect way in Him; a "becoming a son" to the Father? Is it not the doorway to becoming what God is after in us as redemption was meant to be?
What do you believe "be Holy" means? Apparently you believe that part is attainable.

If you don't know much about this, I am not here to bring ridicule. Most don't realize much else beyond just getting save. You have had the courage to say something and leave yourself vulnerable. I won't knowingly violate that.

Again, my purpose is not to persuade you or anyone, to the contrary.

But if our relationship with Him is purposed, as He said it must be purposed, when He prayed this concerning His Disciples after He was about to be crucified:

John 17:9-10;20-23 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. ......Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

...........Where does it leave us if we say we understand?

I believe when Jesus speaks of striving to be perfect in the Father He is referring to being made complete in our love to Him. With this disposition, praying to Him is joy; an act of worship, not a struggle from duty or emptiness. Absence of this love affair speaks of absence/interruption of relationship with Him. This I know.

Very true. Life would be a bore if we were all the same and yet it would a Great JOY if we were one, as He is, i.e., LOVE....And that is what He is after. This life in Him is meant to groom us for the next life with Him.

 

I try to do right.......But all I know is that I have felt Him in my darkest moments. I have felt him in my worship and my joy. He gives me the right things to say when I need to say something and He lets me know when to keep my mouth shut. I don't always listen and then I realize my error.

He saved us becuase He loves us. And we are to strive to be perfect. There is no way ANYONE here on this earth can be completely, totally and unconditionally perfect. If there was, more and more people would be going to the people who were, getting the knowledge of how to become perfect and the world would not be like it is. Further, if we were all perfect, what need would God have had to have to send His Son here?

In any case, I am EXTREMELY happy and grateful that Jesus did come and sacrifice Himself for us. I need to show it more in my life however.

 

I know I shouldn't do this but I stumbled on this Ingersoll quote today and thought it was pertinent. I do not buy this completely but I feel there is a whiff of truth there.

 

What in the World?

Hught,
Are you trying to stir up the discussion? Sounds like baiting to me. The people that are in Hell are there because they want to be. There are no innocent bystanders. They have heard the truth and denied it's power. A righteous, Holy God cannot do otherwise. If we reject Him it is on our own heads not His. Please don't give me the pigmie in africa deal. My God is bigger than that and will judge righteously and with compassion. I would be more concerned with ourselves who have His word all around us and ample opportunity to decide and live unto Him or against as the case may be. Choose this day who you will serve.

 

My god is big enough that it does not need to cast anyone into hell, that is unless this is hell.

Why would a rightous holy god feel a need to torture?

 

PLEASE MAKE IT GO AWAY. iF i CLOSE MY EYES WILL THAT WORK.

DROP IT ORGY, YOU ARE GETTING ON MY NERVES.

I am out of this one. Yall try not to feed the troll to much. Have fun. He doesnt know when enough is enough.

can you say B_O_R_I_N_G

 

Hught,
First I dont want this to get all wacked out. So let's have a constructive discussion. I would submit to you that Hell will be, and is, the absence of God and that those who do not want Him will recieve in themselves their due according to THEIR CHOICES, not His. My Bible says, 'The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.' 2 Pet 3:9. At this very moment He is giving everyone reading this thread an opportunity to muse, think, ponder, wonder, ask, seek; Are you curious? My bible reads that I am to be a Son\Daughter of God, with a Father who loves me and has more than I can even imagine. All I need to do is put Him first. Please Daddy if you will. (I also do not mean Father as we see depicted on television) A real Father. I want that and I can't see how anyone would not. I could continue but await your response.

 

If that is all hell is than I have no worries; as an agnostic I haven’t really missed god, however if I ever see one I will say howdy!

I am to the degree that I am agnostic vs. being an atheist. I hold out that there is a possibility of a god, I am not sure if it (or they) is the Abrahamic God, Shiva, Thor or one of the 100’s of other gods identified through out the years. Also the fact that I am posting to this thread shows that I am at least somewhat curious (of course it can also be my inborn need to stir up a bunch of crap :mrgreen.

I hope that if this is truly your wish that it is granted to you in some form; after a long and happy life.

 

Hugh... :cry:

 

Ready, please don't! It was and is my choice.

 

Can't help it, it makes me sad to "hear" you talking like that. If only you knew Him... :-(

 

Yup. That's what freewill is all about.

 

Wow...

Quite interesting.... Left me speechless. To the point - had to write that one down...Em

 

I wish I could go to this but can't, however some might be interested. This Hitchens guy has been all over TV lately.

The address of the Unitarian Universalist Fellowship of Raleigh is:

3313 Wade Avenue
Raleigh, NC 27606

 

Thoughts....

I was brought up as a Christian and technically am a Christian, but not active in church.

In support of Hugh, I must say he is not alone in his beliefs. I know there is a spiritual world out there that no one can or will understand until after death. It's a confusing subject and right away we can see some responses to his posting.

I myself like to read about different religious views and out of curiosity have read not only the bible in it's entirety but reviewed media about other religions and beliefs for educational reasons and better understand the world's cultural differences.

I am very open and respect people's religious beliefs and have no right to judge yea or nay. I personally love people for who they are and their actions.

I just sometimes wonder why there can be so much anomosity between not only countries but people over religion. I cannot understand why countries kill each other over religion, why some people cannot be friends over religion and why people lose jobs over their beliefs.

Does our God , or their God support these actions? Why can't we all live in peace and just beleive what we want to believe without "pushing" so hard. I am talking not only worldwide here.

Though I am a Christian, it seems sometimes that is not good enough for my own family - not just the rest of the world - I hear that I am not a "born again" Christian, that I need to "get right with God".

There is so much to the bible but supposedly the iconist verse states that "whosoever beleiveth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life" so why do I get so much grief that because not only do I beleive that Jesus sacrificed himself for our sins, but I am also open to thoughts that I believe that our planet is not the only planet with life (here goes my reputation), and that I am not certain on the Adam & Eve story, I am supposedly "still going to hell". What makes the "ideal" Christian? What builds frequent flyer mile credits to heaven? Why are there so many religions?

Sometimes I am afraid to admit that I do watch "UFO files" on TV and "UFO's and the Bible" on the history channel and I am intrigued by the Davinci Code book.

I mean, does that make me a sinner? Does that not make me a good American? I have so much love for people in my heart, more than some devout Christians that I have known - is that still not good enough? My family knows how much I do for charity, breast cancer research, stuff for the troops - because I love to do it and love to give and help when I can and hope that it brings me good "karma" but I am still going to hell because of these "little things" I mentioned. Like I said, personally and locally I do not have any problems due to religious beliefs but when I first moved here and mentioned how I beleived there was life other than us to a boss of mine in Raleigh, I was yelled at by my boss (who used to LOVE me - used to- past tense); she yelled, "How Could You! You're saying that there is not God! The bible says...yada yada yada". I never once said there was no God - I even told her I was Christian but still she never went to lunch with me again or treated me the same.

Geez,l wonder why? I didn't want to be her pet but not here enemy either over something so trivial. I wasn't pushing it on her, just having a casual conversation that led to a religious "war". Anyway, from what I hear, a posting like this can ruin me but I am who I am and beleive what I beleive. But why can't we all just be friends and be at peace.

If I were to run for President, which is a silly thought - but an example, would I win for my actions and ideas (which I think I have some decent ones) or lose because of my religious belieifs and lack of avid church participation? What makes us "righter with God" that the belief of that one verse that is the bible's key to salvation?.

Well hope this doesn't affect my friendship with anyone - you know I love you all but just throwing out some thoughts. ( I don't do that too often you know).