Someone explain this to me...

So how do you propose we get the veggies picked?

 

The same way they did it 100 years ago..Oh wait a minute the corporate farms were not around. People grew there own food. In large farm settings you have to differentiate and make people want your widget even if it costs a little more.

 

Well, it sure is interesting to see that good old fashioned red neck racism is alive and well in central NC in 2007. And I thought that people had at least become too embarassed about it to show it so blatantly. When's the next linchin', y'all? Yeee-hawwww!

 

Racist because I am against people breaking the laws and living here illegally. Let me make it clear......I don't care what color or nationality you are. If you are not here legally then get the hell out!!!!

 

Just wondering...do you have a welcome mat at your front door or those little fake pineapple thingies?

 

It would help if there were actually facts instead of opionions presneted as facts, but if it makes you feel wanted to revel in ignorance .... go for it.

 

What does that have to do with illegal immigrants and the welcome mat is certainly not out for law breakers.

 

Every time I see the title of this thread, I think of Jackson Browne and Lucille Ball. Any of you old enough to know what I'm talking about?

 

I guess giving you a mirror would be a waste of time

 

No, I could sell it, but how does that create fact out of personal opinion?

In fact, it would help more if you could point out the facts I was supposed to read. Like the current data from the US Census Bureau on the estimated number of illegal aliens as was quoted just before it was acknowledged there was no data after 2000.

 

To be honest, I don't know. I can tell you that sacrificing the jobs of thousands of Americans to accomodate the price of tomatos at your grocery store is not the answer. But your answer leads me to believe that the only concern here is how we get our crops processed? Pirate96 has pretty much hit that point right on the head. Corporate America has taken over the farms of America. And now they want us to sacrifice a way of life to accommodate their profit margins, along with the many other companies that deem illegal employees as a way of profitable business.

The bill being presented to us now is not evenhanded for all parties affected by illegal immigrants. To realize how un-just it is you really have to read it. The part I like the most is the $5000 fine. They only have to pay $200 to get a social security card and then the rest is an installment plan. Now tell me this, you’re a criminal, breaking the law, with no ID, you pay $200 and your legal, what portion of the balance do you think you'll pay? Giving them the status of “legal” is not going to turn criminals into law-abiding citizens. These are people who blatantly circumnavigate the law. Amnesty is only going to bring on a whole new set of problems.

The statistics are showing that more than 80% of illegal aliens are guilty of tax evasion or tax fraud. This crime will also fall under the amnesty. What about all the legal citizens who also have this hanging over their heads? Will they too get amnesty for the same crime?

This bill is a nightmare for middle class Americans. This influx of cheap labor, which doesn’t embrace the value of the American way of life, will slowly degrade us into a long-term devaluation of every part of our current lifestyle. Am I willing to sacrifice my career, my families well being and our lifestyle to support the amnesty of criminals? NO.

The majority of illegal families in the U.S. receive approx. $19,000/year in services now. After they pay that $200 this will almost double as they will have legal access to the entire system. You do the math. What's better, a more expensive tomato or more taxes?

 

And just what "race" is racism being shown against here?

 

Excellent points. And anyone who wants to argue about how working illegals add to our economy isn't paying attention. These workers pile themselves 10 or more into a small home or apartment that is meant for just a few people to save on rent. They send most of their money back home. It does not go back into the US economy. We are supporting the Mexican economy while our middle class workers are unable to work for decent pay in construction, landscaping and other labor jobs that used to allow a US citizen to support a middle class family.

 

Where do you get that idea?

It's a complicated, many-faceted problem, and I think I have discussed several sides of the issues in various posts. I think a guest worker program could be part of the solution. It could be set up in any number of ways, but your reply to me indicates that you have not considered the possibility in any detail.

I agree, absolutely. One reason the problem is so huge and unwieldy is that it has been allowed to go on for so many years. Part of the solution involves enforcing the laws against hiring illegal immigrants. There should be a way to verify Social Security numbers quickly and reliably, and then there would be no excuse. If we were to target a few CEO's who knowingly hire illegals, and give them actual jail time, I think we would see those jobs dry up pretty quickly.

Magnolia put her finger on the problem when she pointed out that illegal immigrants are not going to take agricultural labor if they can get better jobs, any more than anyone else. And why do they get better jobs? Because no one enforces the law.

So back to my question, how do we get the produce to market? How have we done it in the past? Slave labor and sharecroppers are history. Family farms, where everybody in the family pitched in, have been pretty much swallowed up by corporate agriculture. Who is going to take those field jobs?

When I think of a guest worker program, I think of the way apples were harvested in New England many years ago. The growers would certify to the Dept. of Agriculture that they could not find enough workers locally to pick the apples. Laborers were then brought in from Jamaica to pick the apples, and when harvest season was over, they were sent back where they came from. They did not bring their families with them, and they did not become year-round residents.

 

This comparison between 1953 and 2003 indicates there were Hispanic migrant laborers used 50 years ago.


http://www.ncmuseumofhistory.org/collateral/articles/s03.nc.society.1953and2003.pdf

 

I think the racists are the ones who should answer that. They are the ones separating people based on appearances. If you want to know about Mexicans, most are a blend of native Americans and Europeans.

 

Wayne, the current data from the US Census Bureau was given to you. If you don't believe it, try looking it up yourself. It's not up to the rest of the discussion participants to do your research for you. You were given the source. If you don't believe it, look it up.

The information given was the most recent US Census Bureau info. If it's not current enough for you, I suggest you contact the US Census folks and let them know you don't think they are doing their job right. But the fact is that the 2000 facts are the ones used all over the nation for reference. Everyone else knows and accepts why the Census isn't done every year, and uses the most recent figures.

Now, the Pew info was current. And I notice you haven't even addressed the current info from them. Why is that? Because you can't argue that current info, right? LOL! :roll:

 

You wish it worked that way, don't you. Hate to disappoint you, but it's up to YOU, the one calling people racists, to explain your accusation.

And as is typical, someone spews the term and then finds themself unable to justify it. It's people like you who have taken the meaning of true racism and thrown it out the window. It's you who prevents those who endure true racism from receiving any attention because the term has lost its meaning due to misuse.

Race is based on appearance? Since when? Tell me, what does the "Mexican" race looks like?

If I wanted to know about Mexicans, someone like you who doesn't even understand the term "racism" is the last person in the world I would go to in order to find out.

 

Bingo! You hit the nail on the head. Migrants have worked the fields for many years. It was a win-win. They were able to come in/be brought in seasonally and make some money and then go back home. Our agricultural entities were able to find workers to get the harvesting and crop work done.

It wasn't until someone decided they deserve the rights of US citizens, that it became a problem. Someone decided they can have babies free here, and get all other healthcare free here. Someone decided that they can come here and get organ transplants and follow up care for life - for free. It was made possible for them to get all the government assistance here that their own govt won't provide. It's been downhill from there. Now, they not only come here and suck the life out of the resources that should be available for US citizens, but they also gather in mass in our streets and Enlightened person and moan about how much more they want and how entitled they are, and how we aren't doing enough for them.

And US citizens are fed up.

 

Which did not refute the article in any way, shape, or, form did it? It cannot because it is SEVEN YEARS old and the article is discussing the current situation. I know what the estimated population was seven years ago is from the Census Bureau so we are good there. We are not good on where you have any facts to refute the current situation as represented by the article you disbelieve.

No problem, on my part as I was not the one making the claim about the CURRENT situation being misrepresented, you were. I just do not see how seven year old data does that.

Yes, and is not independent nor unbiased either, so it is not what anyone would consider factual. It would be an opinion at best.

Not enough there to discuss as the data is only half as old as the Census data. They presented their 2004 view and you believe it because it fits your biased view of today. The time frame is too different for your comparisons.

Making guesses at an assumed rate of increase for 2004 is not current info and a passing reference to that "info" in an article does not constitute proof the article on today's situation is incorrect ....