JoCO Blue Ribbon Study - Planning/Growth

Not sure if you all have seen this yet...

I haven't read past the first page or two yet, but plan on it. Not liking what I am seeing so far.

http://www.johnstonnc.com/files/countymgr/blueribbonreport.pdf

 

Blue Ribbon

Sounds as if their planning was using Pabst...

 

Sounds like they were drinking Pabst when they met. Check out the last page and see if you see ANY conflicts of interest as to who was named to particpate on this board. At least 9 from homebuilders, surveyors, realtors and banks...hmmmm. Is there any question how they feel about growth and how it is managed?

I am guessing that Farm Bureau is not the insurance company, but if it is that would be even worse.

 

Of all the "town of..." people listed, I didn't see any that weren't involved in either the building industry or the political arena. Also, there was no representation from our area (except, again, the building industry).

On the whole, I agreed with the report. The final voting, however, seemed to go against the report. Of course they aren't going to have one dwelling per 2-acre useable tract. That'd be less $$ in their pockets!


Frogger

 

Hey -My Friend,

I did ask to be placed on the blue ribbon committee, but they would not allow regular citizens. Only those representing municipalities or associations. Seems fair doesn't it? Since their recommendations affect everyone in the county. They didn't ask for public opinions as part of this study and that is part of the problem.

As far as conflict of interest goes...what part of this do you not understand? Let's start with realtors and homebuilders deciding how growth is managed in the county.

...and what am I doing for the citizens? Let's start with making my voice heard, attending public meetings, and managing my HOA so that my corner of the county looks nice as people drive by.

I am not a public servant, but I have the right to make sure my public servants actually serve the public. In fact, I see it as my duty as a citizen. I probably won't have much effect on the presidential election, but on a local level I can a lot more.

...but what do I know? I am just a tiny baby with bad gas!

 

I also asked to be put on the committee, with about the same response.

 

hey harvey, how do those planning board meetings generally run? i saw the post with the agenda however if what one wants to hear is heard at 6 but the public is not invited till 7 - how does that work? thanks.

 

IMHO, I think your comments would better be served at a Commissioners meeting as opposed to the Planning Board. The Planning Board has approached the Commissioners and asked them to take a hard look at growth- even consider a Moratorium, until a land-use or growth management plan is adopted. The Planning Board is unanimously in favor of controlling growth, but they do not have the authority to deny any subdivision plans if the plans abide by current County ordinances. The Planning Board had nothing to do with the Blue Ribbon Committee and quite frankly, I'm disappointed a Planning Board member wasn't asked to serve on the Committee.

I'm also disappointed at the committee members, it sure doesn't seem like a well-rounded or fair representation of the area. Why would you not include someone from a high-growth area like Cleveland? How about asking a fireman, policeman, or member of the DOT to also serve on the committee?

Unfortunately, I wasn't there the night the decisions for a committee was made. (But from minute notes, it looks as though the Commissioners decided this at their retreat in New Bern last year). And from Kds, it seems as though a request for inclusion wouldn't have mattered.

I'm hoping to attend the next Commissioners meeting to ask a few of these questions and hear what the next step is. I sure hope anyone else who may have some concerns also makes the meeting.

 

You pretty much nailed it. The planning board is appointed by commissioners and is asked to provide guidance in planning matters. The planning board is then promptly ignored by the commissioners when the content of their professional opinions contradict the commissioners' corrupt ideals and special interests.

The commissioners or planning board will often have closed sessions that may deal with certain aspects of their responsibilities such as salaries or other sensitive counties matters.

 

so pretty much any yahoo can draft plans on paper and tote them to smithfield and get them approved by the county? if i am getting this right, it needs to be stopped asap.

 

If the plans drafted comply with all county requirements and ordinances, then yes they are easily approved. If I was told correctly, out of all the plans presented to the Board, only a small few (like 2-3) were denied, and that's because they blatently didn't follow the laws. The PB just checks to make sure all requirements are met and cannot deny requests, even if they think it's a bad idea.

 

Well, the new subdivision going in near me didn't meet all the ordinances and it was still approved. People in my subdivision kept bringing that up in letters, etc. pointing out the exact ordinances and it was approved.

 

The County Attorney made it clear to the Board that the subdvision DID meet requirements. Again, I think it goes back to legal intrepretation. I believe the county attorney advised them that if they denied it to expect a legal suit against the county. If your neighborhood got together and hired legal representation to fight the approval, a judge may or may not have sided with the neighborhood. However, last I knew, a few people in your neighborhood consulted with a couple attorneys and both said the ordinances are written in a way that make it difficult to win.

P.S. I live in your neighborhood. :mrgreen: By the way, I agree with you that it doesn't seem like that subdivision was following the ordinances. But, I'm not an attorney.

 

Yea, I know:mrgreen: you live in my subdivision! The ordinances are not clear and they need revised as well as a GOOD growth plan put in place for the county. Johnston County really needs to make this a priority with the way we are growing.

 

I don't agree that any growth is better than no growth. Any growth doesn't take a lot of things into account. Economic growth, however, is planned and forecast. It takes a LOT into account.

So sick of the County Commissioners dumping on us!


:evil: Frogger

 

Kindasortamaybebutnotreally.

It is not as simple as that which is what most people do not understand. In theory you can just draft a map and turn it in. There is a traffic impact analysis that has to be done if the subdivision is over X number of lots. A soil and erosion control statement has to be turned in as well. Application, fees etc...as well.

You can design a subdivision yourself on your 40 acres all day long. Do the streets take in account the topo of the land or will you just put it where you want? Are you going to cross the 5 streams on your property with roads or only the 1...maybe 2 crossings that DWQ will allow? When you designed your lot layout, did you get a soils line run by a licensed soil scientist or did you wing it and will they be approved by the JC Health Department? What about the wetlands on there...are they just wetlands or jurisdictional wetlands? Do any of those 5 streams require a 50' riparian buffer on them? Where is the 100 year flood line located because you really dont want any lots to contain 100 year flood on them. Not a real attractive selling point. Where are your, if any, offsite septic areas and how will you get to them? Do all of your cul-de-sac lots have a minimum of 40' road frontage? Are all your lots 80' wide or 100' wide because 100 is easier to sell than 80'. Do your lots contain at least 22,500 square feet? Anything smaller than that runs the risk of the Health Department turning them down....anything smaller than 25,000 has the same risk. Every lot can be turned down if there are no good soils areas on them and how would you know where that soils line is? What is the total area of right-of-way? What is the total area of pavement? Total are of land in riparian buffers?

Thats just the initial subdivision approval so yes, any yahoo on a piece of scrap paper can turn one in. It will be rejected though but you can see it is not as simple as you might think.

 

thanks grinder. that makes me a slight but happier with it all. i do wonder however, are all the things you wrote truly addressed prior to approval? and if so, by whom and when? it sounds as if there is much more done behind the scenes than orignally reported and done by varying county agencies. i need/want this to be true and it seems that YOU MUST KNOW??!??!

 

Oh i know...trust me All of this is done and taken into account before the preliminary approval....for the most part. I did leave out where the Open Space is located...sorry about that.

The health department does not look at lots until the sub'd has been approved and they are staked on the ground. All lots are subject to change, mind you, by the health dept. However, all possible measures (that i mentioned) are considered when doing the initial sub'd submittal and the reason is if you submit 50 lots and then find out you can get 55, for example, and you go with 55....then you have to re-submit again and start the process all over again. If you designate 5 acres for open space, but then realize you need some of that to make the lots work and only end up giving 4 acres, you go back and start over again. Any time you add lots, or take away open space, you go back and start all over again. If you add open space or remove lots, you do not have to re-submit.

So it is in the developers best interest to have all their ducks in a row when the development is submitted in the first place. Lets say a Joe Developer buys a tract of land for $1 million. He is paying interest on it from day one. Thats a lot of interest. The sub'd is submitted on the first of September. It then goes to the October planning board meeting. So there is 2 months of interest before it gets approved. If it gets turned down, there is another minimum of 2 months before its seen again. 4 months of a million dollar interest. As it is, once its submitted and approved, generally its 8 months to a year before they can start selling lots. Even more interest.

Sometimes it can take 2-3 months to get the lots approved by the health department. DWQ calls (items involving wetlands and streams) can take as long as well and if you have a road crossing a creek and DWQ says no, then you have to do a re-design which means re-submitting again from the start.

Again, most competent surveyors who do a lot of subdivision submittals take advantage of every bit of info they can get to make sure there is no need to re-submit but it happens.

It is not as simple as throwing a simple design on a piece of notebook paper and submitting it. Once the plan is approved, then the engineer gets involved and designs the streets (even though you drew them, they still need to be designed), utilities, stormwater runoff, sewer (if applicable) and so on. Those plans then have to be submitted to NCDOT for their appoval, JC Public Utilities for their approval, Progress Energy so they can lay out their system, phone company the same thing and so on. All of this, everything, has to be approved before the map can get recorded. Does the planning board approve all of this? No. They leave it to the respective agencies to do their jobs correctly since they are the ones who take the heat when things go wrong.

Trust me...there are a whole lot of approvals that must be obtained before a subdivision is approved.

 

i can not thank you enough for taking the time to write that out grinder. i read it three times and know i will be back to read it over again many more times!

now, who was that masked man?

 

Its what i do.