But when does a church cease to be a church?....when they sell Starbucks, have a dougnut shop, internet cafes, indoor playgrounds (ala McD's)? Craig
The big question is, whether C3 is a church, a Starbucks with an alter, or a nudie club that's only open on Sundays, what do y'all care? Please someone (preferably one of the bashers) explain it to me. Why do y'all feel obligated to bash on this particular church? There are a lot of other churches in the area. Why this one?
I agree, is this stuff *really* necessary. If they have money to spend on "feel good" crap, how about giving it back to the community. And what was wrong with meeting in a school gym or empty field? It was good enough for Jesus. I am wondering, and I am no expert on the Bible (Or Christianity), but it reminds me of when Jesus knocked the table over because they were "selling admittance" to the church. Is it proper to have a bookstore, doughnut shop, and Starbucks in the church? "Is it not written: 'My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations'? But you have made it a den of thieves" (Mark 11:17, NIV).
What difference does it make? As you yourself said, when Jesus upturned the moneychangers tables, it was because they were (effectivly) selling admittance in to the church. If we complain about Starbucks, why not bake sales? Rummage sales? Bingo nights? Car washes?
I have complained about them before.............I was raised Presbyterian, and although things may have changed, at the time it was made very clear that any monies that the church got was to come from tithes, not any of these other fund raising activities. But that is just my experience, obviously other churches feel differently
Well, I would imagine the proceeds for activities of that type go back to the church and the people. Starbucks sounds like they might need to pay their Starbucks bill, KWIM? Just sounds like a way to get more people in the door, you know prey on their 21st Century addiction to luxury.
It seems to me like they are just adding things to make life more convenient for their congregation. I guarantee you it was all voted on and made available because it was requested. I don't know and really don't care. I most certainly don't judge one church because it is different than another one. I guess that's okay for Christians to do, right? But then again, who cares? I don't go to any church, mostly because of hypocrites like the ones who bash this church. The way I look at it, if you don't like the church, then move on!
So? I was raised Catholic. Every once in a while the local Winchell's Donut shop (think Dunkin' Donuts, but better) would come to the church and sell their wares. Every penny of profit was handed over to the church. Just because it's a corporation, doesn't mean that they must make a profit from their sales. Do you know for a fact that Starbucks is not donating their profits to the church?
Smarty britches, you asked why no one was complaining about fundraising by other churces, I was just saying I HAVE......................................I disagree with it based on my own upbringing. So??
Makes me wonder about all the other churches in the area that do fundraising, chicken bbq etc. Do they donate everything to that person with cancer, etc. or take out for the supplies purchased? Almost every church does some sort of fundraising.
Exactly, lots of them do, and if works for them, great. All I am saying is that not all churches do it, and if I remember correctly, our church's reasoning behind not doing fundraising was the passage Cleo quoted.
I don't know anything for a fact, Clif. It just seems to me Starbucks would have bigger tax breaks than C3... It is just par for the course, apparently. http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Business/story?id=617341&page=1
Sorry, I misunderstood your post. So, the question is (as it was earlier), why do you feel obligated to post your complaints about a church you do not attend?
Ummmm, don't know that I have personally done a whole lot of C3 bashing. I've made the odd comment here and there, I disagree with some of the things I have heard about, but have no personal experience. Really disagree with having a coffee shop IN the church, and I know some folks that go, but actually, if that church fulfills your spiritual needs, more power to you.
So, are you saying that you don't claim your tithing on your income tax? If Starbucks sells their coffee at the church and then claims it on their taxes, how is that different than anything you donate and then claim it on your taxes? Doesn't the charity still get what they need out of the deal?
I'm not so much defending as trying to understand why all the bashing. When I say, "Yeah, well, this other one does it", it's not defending. It's trying to figure out why that other one isn't being bashed as well. No, I was referring to your comment that you had complained about C3, as well as other churches.
