Makes me ashamed to be from Johnston County

And in this, we differ.

And, again, I don't. Yes, I can think of a few who might be able to accept the maturity of the subject matter, but the majority still think "Jackass: The Movie" should have won an oscar.

 

I think the school system has a right and an obligation to decide what books our children will study, and what books will be available to them in the school libraries. Given that resources are finite, both time and money will allow only a certain number of books to be included, thereby excluding all other books.

My understanding of the way events unfolded in this case is as follows. A book is assigned to a high school class. The parents of one student think the book is inappropriate and bring that to the teacher's attention. In accordance with school policy, that student is assigned a different book. However, the rest of the class is still reading the original book, and it is being discussed in class, so the parents are still not satisfied. They bring it to the attention of the school administration and eventually the school board. So far, so good. We should all have the right to have grievances addressed.

The school board then holds a closed meeting that lasts 8 hours, following which they tell the school administration to review the decision they had previously made about allowing that book to be used. Whether I agree or disagree with the outcome, I believe the school board violated the open meetings law. The discussion about the appropriateness of the book, or any school resources, should take place in the open. Concerned parents should have the right to attend and to participate in accordance with the board's policies.

 

DB,

That is exactly how I feel. See you around.

Grace

 

Clif,
The link below will show one exactly what our school board did that is against the law. Note, if the public does not know that they are banning books then one by one books will be gone from our school and public libraries. The link also shows how the school board cannot act alone on making a decision as this.

Me

Henry Reichman, in Censorship and Selection: Issues and Answers for Schools, defines censorship as: “[T]he removal, suppression, or restricted circulation of literary, artistic or educational material — of images, ideas and information — on the grounds that these are morally or otherwise objectionable in light of standards applied by the censor.”

People trying to ban books from libraries do not usually regard their efforts as censorship. A member of the community, school board member or parent objects to, or “challenges,” a book, requesting its removal or sequestration so that students may not have free access to it, etc....... Most frequently, books are challenged because they contain profanity or violence, sex or sex education, homosexuality, witchcraft and the occult, “secular humanism” or “new age” philosophies, portrayals of rebellious children, or “politically incorrect,” racist or sexist language. The American Library Association has documented more than 6,000 such challenges in the United States between 1990 and 2000.

Classic literature such as Mark Twain’s The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn and John Steinbeck’s Of Mice and Men were among the top 10 most frequently challenged books from 1990 to 2000, etc... the most often challenged were those in the Harry Potter series, for its focus on wizardry and magic and “Satanic influence.”

Follow link for results and effects: http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/speech/libraries/topic.aspx?topic=banned_books

Grace

 

KDs,

While I agree we should all have the right to have grievances addressed it is not the School Board's decision on whether a book can or cannot be in a school library. Please see my link to Clif. Yes, the closed door meeting is to be questioned but in the link it clearly states that the School Board should put together an independent committee to investigate. As I have stated before we need more blood to run for offices.

Grace

 

http://www.akacrasher.com/stuff/matrix-re-My Friend.jpg


I can't believe how exciting this topic is!!! Woohoo!!! Party!!!

 

I just guess some of us find this interesting and want the best for the children. Each has their own opinion but at what expense to widening a mind? We seem to be having a civil and grown up discussion which is a good thing!

Grace

 

As usual thanks for your dry dreary narcoleptic response.

 

So it's against the law to simply remove a book without a review of the reasons. I did not see where this has happened (or more specifically did not happen). Perhaps I simply am missing the part in the ARTICLE. It's happened before. I did not see where it says an inquiry was not made.

Please show me specifically what actions the school board took that was unlawful.

You seem to be implying that there is some secret cabal trying to undermine the selection of library books. They did hold a secret meeting (not sure if I approve, but it was within the by-laws, since it was discussing a legal matter). However, the result of the meeting is a public review of books based on public lists of commonly challenged books.

Once again, you seem to be trying to imply some illicit activities going on.

Attempt to be banned is not the same as banned. Just because someone challenges a book does not mean that it will be banned.

 

OK, I have read the article at your link. I do not think it says a school board cannot make the decision, I think it's that the school board in question had a policy and did not follow their own policy.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Pico case came down in favor of the students, but the ruling certainly did not say school boards can never remove books for any reason.
[/FONT]

I certainly agree that more people need to run for the school board, and we need to have these discussions in public.

 

Wrong picture, SS. Can't you find one of a dead horse? :mrgreen:

 

I have often wondered why people who get bored with a conversation, rather than politely leave it, seem to feel that when they have nothing left to say, then no one else should say anything either.

That's awful darned arrogant of you.

 

Yep, I'm pretty arrogant, all right. And you have a great sense of humor.

 

In that case, I did not imply that the conversation had amounted to beating a dead horse. I was bored with it, but certainly did not suggest that others should not continue.

 

I don't think one size fits all ...be it home schooling or public school. That's why I don't like public schools. They institutionalize kids in a generic middle-of-the-road manner no matter what their background. No, I don't home school, but if my kids weren't as independent and capable as they are I would.

Some are, but not all. Many just use the schools as daycare so they can go to work.

What kind of books we have should be decided by the community through elections, not by some holier-than-thou educators with Phd's who don't answer to the citizens.

What if some of those "new things" and "different ideas" are not shared by the community and the community doesn't want their children exposed to them? Anyone saying they know better than the community (at the smallest level possible) what's best for our kids, is being incredibly arrogant.

There's no need to keep arguing about specific books. The question is - "who should decide"? If you don't like books being banned behind closed doors, then protest at a school board meeting, vote for new leadership, or move somewhere else.

 

Clif and KDs,

You are absolutely correct and I am incorrect on the issue of having a committee: The school district's established policy required the school superintendent to appoint a review committee upon a receipt of a complaint about a book. Nevertheless, the board members arranged to have the books “unofficially” removed from the libraries without appointing a committee. The paragraph was specifically for that school district and I read it incorrectly. My mistake.

Yes, attempt and actually banning is different but please notice the books that they were “attempting” to ban. See paragraphs and link below for some clarification on removing a book.

Grace

The law requires that if a book is to be removed, an inquiry must be made as to the motivation and intention of the party calling for its removal. If the party’s intention is to deny students access to ideas with which the party disagrees, it is a violation of the First Amendment.

School officials seeking to rid school libraries of controversial titles and shield children from certain information must tread carefully, however, as the U.S. Supreme Court has found that the First Amendment protects the right to receive information and ideas.

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/Speech/studentexpression/topic.aspx?topic=book_censorship

And yes, I am enjoying this discussion. I enjoy a good discussion and/or debate that makes me learn and think. I'll even go as far as saying I am completely wrong when I finally see it (yes I know some of you think you are beating your head against a wall when discussing issues with me but I need to understand completely). My sense of humor is seen on other Threads but not one like this.

Me

 

You and I are on the same question..."who should decide?" Just because I don't like (actually the word think) books should be banned without further guidance is no need for others to get upset (not talking about you, in general). I protest, as needed, I have stated we need more people running for these offices and I am not going to move. I will make sure that I am as on top of people trying to tell one another how to think or act. We have minds and so do children/teens. Everyone needs to expand them and we are back to SS's remark...the wheels on the bus go round and round. It is frustrating.

Grace

 

What difference does it make what books "they" were attempting to ban? No matter what, there will be some "they" who will try to ban a book (or something else) because of something they find objectionable. It should mean a lot more that they were unsuccessful, than what books they were attemting.

 

I think both "that they were unsuccessful" and "what books they were attempting" to ban are important. It suggests to one what "type" of book someone was trying to get banned. To me it is important to understand why someone would ban a book, except for maturity reasons.

Grace

 

YES THEY CAN GRACE READ THE LINK YOURSELF IT SAYS THEY CAN'T REMOVE THEM BECAUSE OF IDEAS NOT THAT THEY CAN'T REMOVE THEM BECAUSE OF SEXUAL CONTENT. THERE'S PLENTY OF PLACES IN THOSE LINKS THAT SAY THEY ABSOLUTELY CAN REMOVE THEM DUE TO SEXUAL CONTENT

why do i keep banging my head against this wall?