Makes me ashamed to be from Johnston County

I don't consider a school system saying that this book or that music is "not going to be offered by our institution"....as truly banning or censoring. It simply means that the school system has determined that a controversial item will not be offered by them to school children. It means that the school system - and rightly so - is choosing to leave the decision of exposure to that item up to the parents. If their parents would like that book to be available to their children, they have every right to procur it for themselves outside of school, and the school system's choice not to offer it does not in any way affect the availability of the item outside of school.

What laws are they breaking?

What, exactly, are they mad about? Because not allowing the book in school defers the choice to the parents? Why are they mad about that?

Why do you feel it is the school system's responsibility to offer something to children that obviously some parents feel is not appropriate for children?

The fact is that children are not being "denied" access to this book. They will have continue to have access to it outside of school, dependent upon their parent's willingness to allow them to have it. I see no actions on behalf of the school to prevent that access...do you?

Schools exist to teach children the facts they need to know and understand - math, english, history, grammar, science, language, and biology. I would also include non-values based literature. (Not just "any" literature). The school is not responsible for teaching children issues that are values-based such as sexuality and political opinion. Because those topics are subjective, any exposure may go against what the parents of any one child have choosen to teach their child, and thus are best left up to the parents to handle.

I don't understand why people get angry about this. The only reason I can come up with is that for some reason, SOME people feel that their mindset on what children should and should not be exposed to, or be allowed to do, is best for everyone's children. And by removing the book from school, these same people are being denied the chance to impose their idea of parenting on other people's children.

 

ding ding ding ding

 

Exactly! The parents who contacted them about the book should have been allowed to pick another book on the list and the School Board should have moved on. But, our School Board did not do this. The Johnston County School Board (actually two people) decided to remove this book from all school shelves and while making this decision these same people decided why not look into other books. I am in total agreement, that if the parents do not want their child to read that book for a certain reason then they should be able to pick another from the assigned list. I do not agree that the book should then be pulled from all schools in that same system.

That, my friends, is where we differ greatly! And, I would bet that if I did not want my child to read some book about something that you two thought was okay for your child and the School Board decided to pull all of them from the schools you would disagree with that decision. It is now in the hands of attorneys and voters and I hope we all learn from this, including our children.

Grace

 

That WHOOSH! you hear is the sound of the point going right over Grace's head.

Grace...you are advocating that parents depend solely on their child making the decision of "picking another book". The reason parents are parents is because children aren't equipped with the emotional maturity to always make the decisions that the parent feels is the right decision. That's why there are parents to make those decisions FOR the child until they become an adult.

We don't allow children to make every decision for themselves out of school (or parents shouldn't) so why should it be allowed IN school?

You have yet to explain why you feel this deprives anyone of anything, since the parents can get the book for their child outside of the school environment.

You also haven't yet explained why you think the school system is obligated to make this book available to children.

Actually, Grace...I think I stated clearly that any books that are of values-based topics, I don't think should be in the school environment. Therefore, the only books that would be available for you to not want your child to read would be fact-based books. And why would you not want your children exposed to facts?

 

Would you please explain to me where I stated the children should pick out the books they read? I stated the parents, but once again that WHOOSH has headed your way. Once again, if the parents did not want the child to read the book they should have been allowed to pick another book from the list and that would be that. I have said this over and over again...so go back and read Mag.

Grace

 

I want my child to read both fact and fictional. I want her to be able to expand her mind to all views, fact and fictional. I don't want another parent deciding what book my child should or should not read. If the list of books is passed out at the beginning of school and teachers pick from that list then the parents who do not agree with what the teacher picked for the class should ask for their child to read another from the list. They should not have to go to the School Board and then the School Board make a decision to ban that book from all schools. What makes it different now than from the beginning of school? Nothing, other than one set of parents and two School Board members. Enough is enough.

Grace

 

Hahahaha---Score

:lol::lol:

 

What choir are you preaching too? Instead of discussing it, it seems as though you just want to do a one ups-man. Stick to facts or feelings and leave fiction to the authors.

Grace

 

Your problem, Grace...is that you aren't thinking in the realm of reality.

Perhaps you think that children tell their parents about every decision they make - including the ones they know go against what they have been taught, but are too enticing for their emotionally immature minds to resist.

Say you put a group of children in a room with a rack of books and a teacher at a desk. The teacher is not allowed to tell the children what they should and should not choose from the selection to read. The rack contains:

• Classic literature -
• Books on science and history
• Fiction with graphic sexual verbiage involving teens-

Now, which books do you think the typical group of teens is going to choose? The boring classics, science or history books? No. They are going to choose the fiction with graphic sexual verbiage - because they are children.

If, however, their parents were in that room at the desk instead of the teacher, then the parents that prefer their children not be reading the fiction would be there to stop the child and say "No, you are not to read that."

The fact is that few children are going to say "Hey...I can't read that because my mom and dad won't like it, can I have another book?" Children's minds don't work that way. Instead, many will say "Hey! Cool! Sexual content - and it must be okay, because the school is offering it!"

Do you get it now? PARENTS have the right to decide whether or not their children will be reading graphic sexual content. The child does not have that right, because they are children. The school does not have that right. Thus, the decision is removed from the hands of the school AND placed into the hands of the parent...who does have the right.

And when are you going to answer the questions I asked you?

Why you feel this deprives anyone of anything, since the parents can get the book for their child outside of the school environment?

Why you think the school system is obligated to make this book available to children.

 

I think they should choose not to offer any book that has any sort of religious content, any book that separates races or mentions race at all, any book that separates culture, any book that might promote illegal activity, etc.

In fact, why don't the schools just shut down their libraries. After all, the parents would still be able to procur any of these books outside the school.

 

Great...then go buy her the book to read at home. Why does it have to happen in the school environment?

Why do you think the book is only beneficial to your child if it is offered by the school?

 

grace

having the book in question in the school environment forces it into my child's conciousness whether they read it or not, whether i like it or not, and whether we were able to choose an alternate or not. to me, that's YOU and others choosing what my kid reads and is exposed to. and other people choosing for your daughter is exactly what you are complaining about. if YOU want to introduce this crap to your kid, fine, but don't force me to introduce it to mine. why don't you get this?

 

i understand this is sarcasm, but please stop insinuating that those who might be opposed to this particular book are some sort of puritannical thought-nazis.

 

I'm not. I'm just expanding on the fact that some feel the children are not smart enough to know what they should and shouldn't read according to their family values. Is that not in agreement with what you and the others are saying?

 

If each childs parent(s) went to a library and pulled only one book that they felt contained something offensive and did not want their child exposed to, the library would be empty.

Would it not?

 

Mag,
You really need to read up on how this all happened. It was a TEENAGER that brought this book and its contents up to their PARENT. Wow! Reality is that the teenager found some verbiage inappropriate and told her parents, who then went up the chain about the book. It was Fred and Tony who decided for everyone that this book and maybe some others should be pulled from libraries, even though they have been on the assigned reading list since the beginning of school. PARENTS do not read what they sign when it comes to the child's education!!!

The Supreme Court answered your question in 1982 so read up on it. I have a child who does not like to read so when I see her reading something I ask her about it. She read Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, all of the Hobbit series, the Uglies series, etc. Those are all fictional books and, yes some had questionable language, but they are books that helped her understand how fun it is to read. I would not let her read something that I consider pornographic but that is my choice and it is subject to the parent. I do want her to read fiction and love it. I want her to see a hobbit in the bushes when she is walking in a garden and smile.

I also want her to read all sides of a subject. I would like her to be able to actually debate. Not like we do...but a real debate, where one picks a piece of paper and has to argue pro or con on that subject. I believe The Toastmasters Club used to do this and my father was a member.

I want to live in a society where nobody is afraid to speak up or read a book because they are not afraid that they will be judged solely on that. What is wrong with that? That is not a fantasy land...that is America! That is the First Amendment! I do not judge the parents or the teenager that did not want to read a certain book but I do judge the two members of our School Administration and School Board who decided to pull that book and maybe others from the shelves of libraries. Why? Why did they just not follow the rule that stated the family could pick another book off of the list? Why are you not asking them why they did what they did? You will not do that...you will question others who try to understand why those who are supposed to be neutral on these issues have gone overboard.

Grace

 

no, i don't believe it would. i think most people agree in the middle honestly. i think we should vote. oh, wait, we did. for school board....

it seems to me that the only real complaint here is HOW they did it, not THAT they did it. as proven by grace's many posted-by-her but totally unread-by-her links to supreme court cases, it's perfectly legal for local school boards to act according to community standards. if you or grace don't agree with them, fine. vote for someone who shares your values at election time.

the action itself would have been legal if done above board. i am intrigued by the notion that an issue that was not supposed to be handled in a closed meeting was handled that way. if they violated procedure, they should be held accountable. if they acted in a legal manner in removing a book from the school system library, the only accountability they can be held to is at the ballot box

 

What middle? Are we not talking more about individual opinions?

So are you saying that if a vote were to take place and a majority vote indicated the book should not have been pulled you would agree to it being added back?

 

well, i'd say we're talking about the average of individual opinions.

and yes, take a vote is fine with me, however it comes out. the problem is you can't referenda every tiny item the school board has to deal with. we elect them to work for us so we don't have to vote on every single thing

 

Here is an interesting article about a Florida School Board who has embarrassed themselves and the community.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/dec/22/na-polk-needled-noodled-in-evolution-flap/


Now lets watch this thread go in another direction.