Just Curious... maybe opening pandora's box As I have stated before, my family and I attend C3 and volunteer in multiple areas within the church. I'm curious if anyone on the board has had a chance to come to C3 since we started in our new worship center Christmas weekend? (this is a completely honest question, not asked with any ill intent behind it) What was your experience like? I've heard negative comments through-out several threads, I was just curious about any positive comments. Yes, like any church, or life in general, we all have room for improvement. What aspects did you like about C3?
Quoted from the IRS "The compensation that a church or religious organization pays to its ministers for performing services in the exercise of ministry is not subject to FICA taxes. However, income that a minister earns in performing services in the exercise of his ministry is subject to SECA tax, unless the minister as timely applied for and received an exemption from SECA tax." SECA is the Self-Employment contributions act. If a church pays the FICA/medicare for the pastor, it would be considered income to the pastor. A pastor can elect to have the FICA/medicare amount deducted from his paycheck but the withholding would have to be reported as federal withholdings. That being said, yes, some churches can elect to pay the FICA and medicare, but the pastor would have to report that has income. It would be to the pastor's benefit to not have that amount paid by the church.
If the minister is considered an employee of the religious organization, then why would FICA/medicare be considered reportably income? It isn't for other employees. I'm missing something from your post.
Now I am opening Pandora's Box... I can only speak for myself and my family's experience with C3. My parents were never church people; God was not something they worried with. I had some exposure to (traditional) church when I was early elementary age, our babysitter would take my brother and myself to church every now and then. At that age, I remember enjoying it. My parents divorced shortly after and my mom moved us to NC. I didn’t go to church again until some time in high school. Later in my high school years, through friends, I went with them to church a handful of times. I'm sure the churches I went to were all good churches, but personally I was disconnected from God - I didn't know it at the time. So when I went to their church, I felt out of place, like I didn't belong. Because of the choices I was making, basically to do things my way and because I didn't think I needed God in my life, I chose other things instead. I really began to make some bad choices, and my life spiraled out of control very quickly. Let's just say, I was very lucky to be alive and not in jail. During my senior year in high school, I would say I had a "God Encounter", maybe it was my rock bottom. One night, in my bedroom I turned to God and asked if He was real, He would change my life. Since then my life is 100% different. I visited a couple "traditional" churches because that's all I knew from my few experiences with church. This time I was actively seeking God and wanting to be different. But I felt that same feeling as before, as if I did not belong. This was not the churches vault, they were friendly and reached out to me, but I just didn't feel like my life was "in order" enough to connect with the traditional church. I didn't dress like them, talk like them, look like them, etc... I almost chose to give up and just say it was a phase or I gave it a shot. But then another friend invited me to her "non-denominational" church. When I first walked in, it was so different from what I had experience before. The church was laid back, had a band that played new music, and the message was life giving and not condemning. It was different but I liked it. I felt I could relate to some of the people there. I didn't have to have a suit and tie, which I didn't own and couldn't afford. The music exposed me to an aspect of worship and learned to be thankful and give God praise for His goodness and for the work He was doing in my life. Though the word was not a theology lesson, Ormly might call it "cotton candy", but it helped me walk out of there each week with some thing that I could improve on and do better at. Whether it be reading my Bible, praying, being a better employee, a nicer person to others, helping others, giving (inside and outside the church), etc... It was me taking one step at a time and allowing God to work on me from the inside --> out. And it didn't happen overnight. But where I'm at today versus where I started are light years different. Later this week, I will be marking my 12th year as a Christian. 12 years ago, multiple times I should have been dead, mostly of my undoing. But today I have a gorgeous wife of 8.5 years and two beautiful children almost 2 and 4. My hope is that my kids will grow up loving and respecting God for themselves and can avoid half of what I had to go through. I would say that laid back, cotton candy church played an important role in where I'm at today. God gets 100% all the credit (glory) for where I'm at today. I thank Him for that all the time. In closing, imo, that's what C3 does for people. It provides a place where some people feel safe enough to come, just as they are, hurting or not, seeking or not, religious or not and everyone is invited to hear about Jesus and make a decision to be a Christ follower or to become Christ Like (aka - Christian). Our heart is not to push anyone away from God but to help people take, at the very least, 1 step closer to God. Some churches may feel "cotton candy'ish" but if it can help people become a better Christian, husband/wife, dad/mom, co-worker/boss, friend/neighbor then I believe that as a whole, we can leave a mark on this world as a testimony of what a loving, all-powerful, full of grace, forgiving and living God we serve. Just for the record, my wrong choices were sin that Jesus Christ died and forgave us all from. I'm not sugar coating sin; I'm just trying to share my real-life testimony using non-church terms so people who aren't familiar with church terms (Christianese) can relate to what I'm sharing.
It doesn't make a lot of sense, but she's right about the regs. Pastors are supposed to be issued W-2 forms, not 1099's, but the churches do not have to take anything out of their pay for income tax withholding or FICA/Medicare. All other church employees are treated as regular employees.
There was a court case regarding the IRS and a minister. The ruling was that the clergy person was considered an employee of the church and they receive a W-2, however for income tax purposes the clergy person was considered to be self-employed. If the taxes are withheld for FICA and Medicare from the gross pay of the pastor, the taxes would have to be listed as Federal withholding. The portion the employer pays, in this case the church, according to the IRS ruling, would be considered as income to the pastor and would need to be reported as such. A pastor can elect to have federal withholdings, although they are not required. There is nothing that says that their federal withholdings cannot include FICA and medicare it just can not be reported as such. As far as other church employees, they are not necessarily clergy. For those employees the church does pay their portion of the FICA and medicare. If your church's budget lists payroll taxes, determine the amount that is not clergy salary and then multiply that amount by 7.65%, that would give you the churches portion of FICA and Medicare. If they are paying more than that amount, then inform the church treasurer or finance committee and have them look into that. I hope that helps answer your question.
I can't change my opinion simply because I know what the church is supposed to be about and C3 doesn't come close.
You did a fine job with your post. Continue to share your story and let God take care of the rest. You will be his witness to all men of what you have seen and heard. Acts 22:15
You know do you? I am glad you are not the Authority. Can you please enlighten us? I don't have any strong opinions as to what a church is supposed to be other than this week's message put it very simple and practical through the story of Luke 15: 1) Conviction - Come to your senses in your mind and know that God will never put you aside 2) Confession - Agree with God, ask for forgiveness, put him in your heart 3) Conversion - Get ready to make a leap of faith and actually do something to make a difference Our Father has the ability to save and the ability to love. What an awesome God! All C3 does is try to find a way to reach people and get God into your heart which I believe should be the goal of any church. It ultimately has to be a personal decision but there have been thousands saved there and more each and every week. ALL Christians (if that is in fact what you are) should appreciate that regardless of what church they are from. When I left the service this weekend, I just saw all of the people, yes, several thousand of them, and said God is good. He has a place where people can come as they are, worship and praise Him and God willing, develop desciples among them. It may not happen to all, but is has happened to many, including myself and so many other quality Christian families. No pride here. I have a LONG way to go.....
same message That was the same message he preached on two years ago. I can not say for certain word for word b/c I was not there this past weekend. What you posted on the three C's from Luke Pastor Matt spoke on already. I am not saying anything is wrong with that. Only he knows why he would preach the same sermon. Alot of times pastors/preachers will do this when they are led to. I can only say I guess I was paying attention last time around to remember the three C's
Would that be the meetings where you stand up and say, "Hi, my name is Ormly and I'm..."? I know what the Bible says the church is supposed to be about. Just out of curiosity, what do you think the church is supposed to be about and how does C3 not measure up?
Then why be so hard on me? Don't you think you owe it to yourself to find out and then hold fast to your convictions?
In a capsule summation, intimacy with God and not a discourse in how to accomodate the world. Make no mistake about it, the world will love that new 'Starbucks" coffee. I understand that C3 is now classified by the government as a business and not a church.
This whole thread just trips me the hell out. :lol::lol::lol: I'm more Christian than you No your not Yes I am No your not My church is better than yours No it's not Yes it is No it's not :beathorse::beathorse: I have a great idea, be happy with the chuch YOU attend, be happy for others, if you've been to a church that doesn't fit your needs, then go somewhere else or start your own. Damn, is it really that difficult? :banghead:
Nawh, just a friendly 'square table' discussion about God. Anyone is welcome to sit in and have say. It is usually on Wed and/or Fridays morns about 9.30 we get together, never more than a few. It is not a 'connect group' where anyone gets 'coached' or 'facilitated', just Jesus talk. Please join us.
