You are right. They have not hurt anyone. But, I would say that as a church, they have dissappointed a lot of people. And the dissappointed are free to go to another church like we have. I believe that most of the negative comments regarding C3 stem from a persons (me included) own frustration as to where the church is headed. There seems to be a lot of comment about C3 not giving back to the community. Beyond the angel tree and backpacks for school kids there is a greater need for community involvement. I have often thought about how a large church body like C3 could really make an impact in the Cleveland area. However, the leadership at C3 appears to be more interested in themselves and being a "mega church". Look at Matt Fry's website-he talks about where he will be speaking next in the country instead of being at his own church. Instead, you will be able to watch a recorded sermon on the big screen. Just seems a bit much to me. C3 may be a large target because of there size, but why not use it for good and make some real changes to needy people in our area. Prove us wrong C3.
I forgot I even posted in this thread until today when it was bumped up by JoCoRez. :lol: See I didn't read the whole thread. Gives me a headache. :banghead: I'm assuming since Ormly didn't object to my post, that I was right. :lol::lol: As Usual!
You mean like a social organization? I agree. For that you don't need to be a church and they might fill the bill on that better than their preaching Christ.
Originally Posted by KellBell HG, we all tried to tell Ormly just that and he wanted to argue with each of us, differently. He proceeded to tell us we didn't have respect for God, if we worshipped in these 'modernized' churchs (like C3 for example).....so with all due respect to you HG, Ormly is the one that disputed, with everyone on the board (for some 50+ pages I might add) that none of the things you stated, were acceptable. He was in fact the one, saying all of us were wrong for choosing to worship however we wanted to. [/quote] That is just so hop scotch. You read what you wanted to read from my posts.
That is just so hop scotch. You read what you wanted to read from my posts.[/quote] no it isn't. you said as much in those exact words. ok, now say "prove i meant what i said even though now i say you made up what it means even though i said it" troll
No Troll, I'll let you quote my words back to me for examination and you will see where you read only what you want to read; understand only what you want to understand.
First of all, let me state that I’m not basher of C3... That being said… C3 is everywhere. You can't drive through Wake or Johnston County without seeing a C3 bumper sticker on a vehicle. They recruit for the church which is fine, but people need to understand that when there is so much growth… a huge church going up in such a short period of time… a huge influx of new parishioners… and thousands of bumper stickers… there is bound to be speculation of how things grew so fast and people are start looking deeper. We all have heard via the news of corporate executives undermining companies and taking their staff for a ride while they embezzled millions/billions of dollars from shareholders leaving people with no retirements. Unfortunately, we as a nation have become suspicious of such quick rises to fame and fortune and don’t typically trust people at their word (which is pretty sad when we just can’t trust each other any more). On the surface things look “ok.” But consider that Matt and Martha have a home with a tax value of $375K of which its market value could be substantially more. Where does a church get the money to pay for a parsonage of such grandeur in the Broadmoor area? I attend a very small, modest church and our pastor has a very modest parsonage and lives a very humble life. There was a thread posted by Jester that stated, “What we have is what the Lord wants us to be caretakers of; sensibly using it both to supply our needs and to see that others' needs are cared for.” If this is true why are there starving people all over the world? It’s certainly not to punish them. God does not punish people... he loves us all. He doesn’t want to drive people away, but welcome them to Him. How is C3 helping their community? I have poured over the website out of curiosity because I have friends who attend… maybe I missed it, but I still haven’t found how C3 supports community. Do they have a food/clothes closet? Do their men work with Habitat for Humanity for example to help build/rebuild houses for those in need? Do they have women’s groups that use their own money (over tithing) to for funds where they adopt a needy family at Christmas? For those who would like to become part of a church like C3, these things are important. Where can one find this information? Back to the $$ issue… Church administrators and their congregations typically vote on where tithes go. My church hands our budget out to the congregation with a line by line account of every cent that comes in and where money is budgeted to. If that isn’t readily available at C3, I can see where people might start to question the living accommodations that Pastor Fry and his family have. It’s easy to investigate people, land, trusts, and corporations through tax records available on the internet. Matt and Martha are probably very adept business people. They own several properties, three of which are named "Fry Children Land Trust" and "Fry Family Land Trust" and “Mt. Pleasant Trust.” The trustee for all three properties is Martha Fry according to Johnston County Tax records. The Co-owner along with Matt and Martha of these three properties is "Tedwil, Inc." Tedwil, Inc. is owned by Ted Wilbanks who lives Hockaday Road in Four Oaks. However, Tedwil, Inc's address is nothing but a piece of land with a few trees in Four Oaks. If you weren’t aware, Ted Wilbanks is a past minister of pastoral care for the C3 church. The thread from jennandchad states one has “no idea about what their personal situations previous to being a part of C3. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but please try to support comments with something that can be backed up rather than putting a wrongful assumption out there…” Just by investigation, the whole trusts in kid's names/trustee/incorporation findings may be either a very good business practice or a deceitful mess. If they’re just good business people and there’s nothing to hide, why is there such a convoluted mess of trustees, trusts, owners, and corporation addresses that are nothing but a piece of land? I can see both sides of the story. People by nature are curious… that’s why all the interest in C3. A large majority of people are also skeptical because of past wrongs by people in high positions of authority. That’s just life. I’m all for accountability… for myself and my church… and again, I’m not bashing… just asking the hard questions and bringing up situations that, on the surface, may seem misleading to the general public which in turn leads to skepticism among the community. The answers are far from clear and that makes me feel uncomfortable. I imagine it does for others as well.
Since I'm the "Mayor" ---- give it a rest. THAT'S AN ORDER PEOPLE. if you go to church, great, if you don't good for you! I really don't give a crap. As long as you are happy with who you are as a person and worship in YOUR own way, have at it. THREAD OVER!!!! :mrgreen:
