anyone heard of Collective Bargaining?

Or maybe you're one of the few?

 

Dont think so, I think its all starting to change over to paid overtime now.. from what I can understand. But then again if you dont like it go work somewhere else.. I dont want a group to decide what is good for me or not. I have the choice to go back to the private sector but really know better...

 

Not quite the whole story. DOC's "mandatory overtime" consists of having to hold an employee over to work when someone calls in, staff shortages, or there is an emergency (escape, fire, natural disaster, etc) at the facility. Now pray tell, how is a union or anyone else going to keep an employee from having to work overtime when an escape has occurred 10 mins before shift change?

Also, overtime is paid in state government. The employee may not always get a chance to have the final say so, but management can give time back before the pay period ends (Speaking of certified correctional staff). If they have made overtime, and are not able to take the time off before the end of the 28 day pay period, they do are paid for the comp time at time and a half. Other employees generally have a Sun-Sat pay period. If they work more than 40 hours in the week, they get time and a half pay or time and a half off.

That is one reason unions get a bad name, is when they make promises they can't possibly keep. No union can keep someone from having to work mandatory overtime when the job is a 24/7 position. Everyone correctional officer interview I ever sat in on or saw the questions too, one of the questions was, "Can you work at any time: holidays, weekends, or any shift, 24/7"? If they answered that they couldn't, then they were not hired.


Plus someone please tell me who has more job protection than a state employee who is off their probationary period?

Humbly,
State Retiree

 

Right on RC. Some people just want $20/hr for a job that's worth $8/hr, and when they can't get that they blame it on the big bad business owner. They should be pointing the finger at themselves for not having the education/experience to actually get a $20/hr job. That retirement package you want when working an $8/hr job? You have it and it's called Social Security.

 

I am not certain of all the rules and reg for DOC, as I work for another agency. From what I am told they are no longer paid or perhaps only at certain times, for this, but they are given comp time that is difficult to take. The new payrole system that was implemented last year does not allow this comp time to carry over forever.
The folks I know are not the newbies but those that have been there a long while and they don't like some of these new changes at DOC.

If I take a job with a private company and I have a retirement package then I expect it to be there when I retire. When you are a public employee, you are at the whim of state officials as to what you get and how you get it and IF you get it. THere is no guarantee.
Last years budget included a clause to remove DOT from th State Personel act. THat would have been terrible: getting rid of everything and changing the rules. It was not passed, but scared me. I don't want to be left out in the cold because some one in the legislature voted on something one way or the other just because they had a bad day or something.
There is no certainty that any public employee pensions or health pans will stay in place.

 

Comp time has never carried over forever, there's no need for it to carry over when you're being PAID for it at the end of the 28 day pay period. The OSP website clearly states:

State Agencies are subject to the Federal Fair Labor Standards Act.....

http://www.osp.state.nc.us/manuals/manual99/genpay.pdf

How safe do you think retirement systems are in the private sector? Ask the folks who worked for Enron. State employees/teachers are not at the whim of elected officials. The State Constitution of North Carolina gurantees that the system has to funded at a level to pay out its obligations. That's pretty good protection....and better than most any in the private sector that I've ever heard about.

Welcome to the real world....no one is guranteed in the private sector either. The courts have just ruled that companies don't have to gurantee health insurance to retirees once they go on Medicare, so there's goes anyone gurantees.

All you hear from union folks wanting you to pay 1.5% of your salary every month isn't being quoted from a prayer book either.

I have no problem with GS 95-98 being repealed. I think public employees should have the same right that every private sector employee has, which is the right to organize/unionized and engage in collective bargaining if they so choose. But a know of a lot cases where employees looked at the union, saw that 1.5% of salary would be deducted, and decided they were better off without the union. That is why its important to get facts straight, instead of believing union propaganda, like "we can keep you from working mandatory overtime".

And again, who has more job protection that a state government employee after they get through with their probationary hiring period??????

 

And you hear the UAW complainnig becasue they are losing their jobs where they got paid $45/hr plus benifits to bolt a fender on a Chevy. Or the union Pipe fitter doing a $15/hr job getting paid $35/hr.

I want to be in control of my own wages, not some union boss who does not know me at all.

 

i don't think your north carolina government job is going to be shipped to india or mexico.

how? you think unionizing government employees will result in private sector salary increases? how would that work exactly? i don't understand.

also, your complaints about health benefits and pensions are just wrong. there's no guarantee that stuff will be there in the private sector. ask my father-in-law who got laid off by ford tractor just 18 months short of his 30 year retirement date, effectively screwing him out of his full benefits.

maybe because not all positions in all areas have extra stuff to learn about them or extra certifications to obtain? not unfair. maybe your job doesn't offer any growth potential, but that doesn't mean all of them don't, and it certainly doesn't mean that all private sector jobs offer advancement or the ability to get "extra credit" as you describe, either.


sorry, but almost every facet of your argument sounds selfish. the job is what the job is, pays what it pays, offers what benefits it offers, and that's just the name of the game. you took the job. you knew the deal. ball's in your court now: keep it or leave it. what other answer do you want? oh, i know, the answer of more dollars and more benefits for the same job you're doing now. we all want that....

 

I agree. Keep NC an at will state. If I'm not happy with my employment, it's my responsibility to find one I'm happy with.

How many private sector companies offer retirement benefits? Hardly any these days, it's up to the individuals to save for their own.

RC-you hit the nail on the head, there are no other jobs that are more protected than a state employees.

 

Thanks SB...but just to clarify....repeal of 95-98 does not remove the at will status of any employee in North Carolina. All it does is give public employees (state and local government employees) the same right to form a union and collective bargain...enter into a binding employment contract.

NC's at will status would not be effected by that change. Of course most state employees don't fall under the at will provisions of the law because they are already covered the State Personnel Manual which gives all kinds of protections against unjust firings.

 

I've seen several terms and statements on here that indicate people don't really understand what this is about.

"Right to Work" laws prohibit "Union Shops." A Union Shop means that the employees of the company have decided that all employees will be required to be members of the union. NC is a "Right to Work" state, one of a relatively small number. This has nothing to do with Right to Work laws.

"Employment at will" means that, unless there is a contract, employers can fire employees at any time for any reason or even for no reason (but not for an illegal reason) and employees can quit at any time for any reason. NC, like probably every other state in the country, is an Employment at Will state. This has nothing to do with Employment at Will.

The NC HOPE coalition is asking the legislature to repeal NCGS 95-98.

 

THe lack of understanding is annoying but the fear that poeple have of collective bargaining and the assumption of unions is amazing.

As far as the cost of living in NC verses other states....States with collective bargaining rights may have a slightly higher C-O-L. Why? Because they are making more money. Duh.
Public Sector employees are not treated the same in NC as they are in other areas of the country. Here we are a dime a dozen. Nothing more the peons at the mercy of the legislature.
you say it is the same in the private sector and that those employees are at the mercy of their boss - that's may be true but..................... if you knew that other kids on the block were getting candy and you were getting a saltine, you'd get annoyed and want the candy. Well, other states, who have collective bargaining, give their employees more,(and it actually costs them less), so naturally, NC public employees want the good stuff too. wouldn't you?

And as far as the union stuff... which has nothing to do with collective bargaining:
You can say want you want but, historically, union jobs have always paid better and were highly coveted. What's a few bucks compared to a guarantee that your wages, benefits and retirement stay in place? I'd like that deal.

 

So if a group of employees get collective bargaining then they don't need a union to bargain for them. Interesting if that is your understanding.

So why go through the hassel of paying union employees, who don't work cheap, if all your wage gains are ate up by cost of living? Duh

BS. If that is the case, how come almost every job in state government, other than teachers, correctional officers, and those other jobs who have to provide 24/7 coverage...how come on most other state jobs they get plenty of applications from the working folks in the private sector who have actually had to produce on a job to be worth their monies?

So they pay less in union dues than state employees in NC pay in SEANC dues? Don't think so. Again, if the COL eats up the wages, what is the point???

Unions have nothing to do with collective bargaining? If CB passed tomorrow, unions from all over the country would be in NC trying to represent public sector employees. Can't believe you are not aware of that.

Again, how much more guarantee can you get when your pension is covered by the State Constitution and it is practically impossible to fire a permanent state employee unless they screw something up?????

 

unions are why gm and ford and chrysler have had layoffs and reported the worst earnings in the history of american capitalism. unions are why every major domestic airline (except one) have either been absorbed by other airlines, or filed for bankruptcy (including those that absorbed other airlines).

of course union jobs are desirable. they extort companies into paying their employees such outrageous wages and benny packages that they actually can't afford to stay in business. brilliant economic strategery you got there....

 

Its not a "fear"...its the facts.

Why should employees & thier union dictate what an employer pays? Or what benefits will be given?

Can you explain why you think that should be a choice of those who work for the company...rather than the people who OWN the company?

Where in the Constitution does it say that any employee is guaranteed a job, at a certain pay rate, with certain benefits? Fact is...it doesn't.

Why should the rest of the nation endure the detriment that results when a company moves their operations to another country because they have determined that it is no longer to their benefit to hire people from America because they are too costly to hire due to unionization...just so a handful of employees can get an unreasonably high pay rate for maybe 10 years, and more benefits than are equitable compared to the rest of the job market?

And as for job security...well...what do you think happens when a company is bound by "union" rules to retain employees...when the economy and the books say it's time to downsize? You get a company that closes its doors. And then where will those employees be?

There is no right to "job security". To even insinuate that anyone is due such a thing is ludicrous, unreasonable, and self-serving.

 

RC thanks for explaining, I now understand the two have nothing to do with each other.

I know many state employees that love their jobs, all those paid days off (some 4 day work weeks), all that accrued sick time and vacation time. My brother in law is one of them...I think he has like 2-3 months of leave time saved up. He will retire in a couple of years with full retirement. The state has been good to him and his family over the years. He's worked hard and reaped the benefits, promotions, etc. from it.

I can tell you not very many private companies in this day and time offer these things to their employee's:

-guaranteed raises, if the company doesn't do well you don't get a raise, you're just lucky to have a job.
-all that sick time (State employees accrue it like vacation), because you usually have to use your pto days for that and vacation days
-a retirement, because we have to save for our own
-all those paid holidays (12 days this year)

 

Interesting analogy. Tell me this...

What if a handful of employees in your area were pushing to unionize their jobs so that they will make MORE than market rates, get more benefits, and have job security (in other words, get an abundance of candy)....than the majority of the other employees in the town.

...And you were one of the others - working in the same area, only you are a private sector employee - making market rates, getting market comparable benefits and without Daddy union protecting your job. (and thus getting saltines)

What would you think?

Would you like watching the main employer in your town inching closer and closer to either closing their doors or moving out of the country because those same union pushers were too costly to retain?

And when they did - and they would - would you enjoy watching your town become a ghost town?

Would you enjoy watching your own property rates plummet because half or more of the houses in your subdivision were vacant due to no jobs in the area after the big company closed?

Would you enjoy watching your friends and family go bankrupt?

Would you enjoy watching your friends and family lose their small businesses - their livelihood...because there is not enough people left in town to patronize those businesses?

Sure...for the handful that work those jobs, its peachy. For the rest of the population, it's a bum deal. So don't get too upset when non-union folks tell you they think it's a bad idea, and want no part of it. And when they show resentment towards those who think they should get a cushy deal that will benefit only them - and only for a while - but that has a great potential to ruin the entire town in the future.

 

Then there is that little matter of health insurance - that they don't have to pay for Canadian workers.