Look out Clive, he is bored today and will rip apart and twist everything you are saying, I think his name is really ORMLY
Excuse me? I don't believe I posted anything even remotely concerning you until just now. Immensely, but that has little to do with you. I didn't twist what you said. What I read seemed contradictory so I asked you to clarify.
Fair enough. But then the question becomes, if the choice we make is to let God handle it (without a doctor), would that not be acceptable. As I said in my initial post, we trust the government to handle the quality of food. If something happens and that food is no longer healthy, we don't expect to be charged because we believed the food to be healthy, right? Isn't it the same thing with God? We trust God to answer our prayers (at the risk ofsounding like a broken record, "ask and ye shall receive"). So we pray for God to heal the child. Are we then to be held liable if we put trust in God and God did not act as we believed He should?
I have dealt with Clif for years I believe he is entirely sincere in his question and is only trying to get an intellectual dialog going. His mistake is using 4042 to do it.He is in no way Ormley.
[ On the other hand, beliefs are very strong. Is the fact that these people believed down to their soul that God would heal there daughter any different than other parents believing that the government would protect them from E. Coli? If you're child died of E. Coli, should you be charged because you had faith that the government's food inspectors approved the food?[/QUOTE] The young girl had been sick and her parents knew and had been told by relatives to take her to the hospital. If my child had E. Coli and she died because I did not seek medical treatment for her then yes i need to be charged(I wouldnt' be able to live with myself anyway) As far as how she got the E. Coli .... i would be having a strong and heated conversation with the government onthe inspection process not that it would do much good with the government. As a parent I can't keep my child from getting hurt or sick... but i can seek help for when she does come down with something and that is my responsibility as a parent. Ok my emotions get to rolling in my head and then the words get all jumbled..so I hope what i typed makes sense.
You, Clif, Everyone here seems to have the same premise of the conversation except you. And honestly you seem way off in left field. Kimmie said You said It's like an echo in here. We don't tell God what we want and he delivers. That's not how it works and that's not what she was implying.. or at least that's not how I read it. She didn't say ask and you shall receive exactly what you asked for. Oh well...Just another day in Clifville.
I see some of this point being made But then again, one should remember that everything happens in God's time when He deems it to happen ... part of the plan. We all know that one of the commandments is that there should be no murder .... wouldn't the parents now be considered such? They just did not do it with a knife, gun etc .... IMO, the parents should have acted by going the medical route with what we've been blessed with as well as prayer for strength, recovery, guidance and yes, Healing. After all, diabetes is not (I don't think - I'm not sure) a one day/one week illness ... so God still could've answered the parents prayer by healing the child once the docs overcame the onset of the illness. Its a sad situation for all involved ..but yet God still could've healed the child in the long run so that she would've (God willing) enjoyed a longer life.
Hey now!! :mrgreen: Actually, I think it is a very thought provoking thread. I think the parents in both cases are wrong, plain and simple. As far as holding us responsible for believing in a gov't entity................... Yes, the FDA is there is to protect our food supply, but it's my job to wash/prepare food so as not to get food poisening/diseases. Most of those things can be avoided by proper preparation. I should be held responsible if I feed my kid half raw chicken and he gets salmonella, that's neglect. Same thing with prayer, you can pray on your way to the doctor. God gave us the brains to make medicine, take advantage of it while praying that God will guide the doctors to the right diagnosis/treatment. Does that make any sense at all??
Makes sense to me. As far as the Clif/Ormly thing, I don't think so. Clif, I think is honestly trying to find and answer to his question Ormly, he already knows the answer to his question and WILL NOT listen to any other thoughts or ideas!!
I understand what the others are saying. I had that argument in my initial post. What is missing is that part where these people felt so strongly in their belief that God would cure the child that they didn't even consider taking her to a doctor. I guess what it really comes down to is this... God helps those who help themselves. God gave us brains to take her to a doctor. Yada, yada, yada. It all seems like a cop out. He heals on His whim, but you have a better chance of His whim being good if you take the child to the doctor. How does one know that it's not all random? How do we know that God heals people taken to the doctor and it's not the doctor who did it on his own? If it says in the Bible, "Ask and ye will receive," and we are supposed to believe it. Then, if you ask and don't receive you get punished.
Clif try a different approach... I really don't understand your meaning behind the madness...for lack of better terms. errr... you already posted.... let me read
