I am just trying to understand what you are asking me.. If the parents put their daughter in the care of a human doctor, no I would not consider them as negligent on their part of doing their job as a parent. I don't quite understand this part as to what you are asking me. ..."and (I would be willing to bet) you would not say that they did not take her to several different doctors and therefore did not use all resources available" No...at that point I would not say that the parents did not use resources available to them.
I don't have an opinion on what they did or didn't do. I haven't stated one. Because from what I've gotten from your posts are... if I take my child to a doctor and not pray that her ear infection goes away, then I don't believe in God. When that's wrong. I believe in God and the power of prayer. With that same token, I believe in modern medicine and the knowledge bestowed upon the minds and hands of doctors by the graces of God.
No, I think you can? You can not Vax due to religious or personal reasons? Something like that. Like Blood Transfusions, people die when this is refused if it is not inline with their beliefs - I believe it is the Jehovah's Witnesses.
Sooo, is it possible that the local healthcare providers were aware at one point that there was a child in their care who had this disease and she left the practice, fell through the cracks, and received no further midical treatment? Could that then turn into hospitals or govt tracking you (or at least minors) to be sure you are treated with conventional medicine?
What you said was that the parents were negligent because by not sending them to a doctor and relying solely on God, they did not utilize all resources available to them. By that argument, you might also say that, if they too their daughter to a single doctor and she died, then they could be negligent because they did not take her to several doctors (all resources). What they did do was rely on (what was to them) the ultimate doctor, God. There should have been no need for a "second opinion".
A few questions. The parents had coverage, was it ever used? Or was it just to get a policy in place to entice employees?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief Belief, knowledge and epistemology The relationship between belief and knowledge is subtle. Believers in a claim typically say that they know that claim. For instance, those who believe that the Sun is a god will report that they know that the Sun is a god. However, the terms belief and knowledge are used differently by philosophers. Epistemology is the philosophical study of knowledge and belief. A primary problem for epistemology is exactly what is needed in order for us to have knowledge. In a notion derived from Plato's dialogue Theaetetus, philosophy has traditionally defined knowledge as justified true belief. The relationship between belief and knowledge is that a belief is knowledge if the belief is true, and if the believer has a justification (reasonable and necessarily plausible assertions/evidence/guidance) for believing it is true. A false belief is not considered to be knowledge, even if it is sincere. A sincere believer in the flat earth theory does not know that the Earth is flat. Similarly, a truth that nobody believes is not knowledge, because in order to be knowledge, there must be some person who knows it. Again, I ask Clif, where did GOD tell us to believe only in him for healing? I want to see scripture that says that when it comes to medical conditions and where he tells us to NOT seek other medical resources. If you can show me where GOD specifically says something pertaining to this then I might agree with you that it is a lack of belief. But at this point I think the parents had a false belief in what they thought GOD told them to do.
Why would you entice employees (small Mom and Pop business) and offer them something that you yourself didn't believe in? I don't know about you, but I don't know many private, hand full of employee's business that offer benefits, much less insurance.
I think the parents were negligent/or they failed in their responsibility to God to take care of that gift from God by not taking her to a doctor (in which God has given us this resource) Yes, I guess it could be said that according to my post I mentioned all resources however I meant a doctor I did not necessarily mean 5, 10, 15 however I can see where you got that but I also think you looked to deep into what I posted. Granted I see your point on the ultimate doctor but I still think they failed to use the resources available to them to keep a child of God from harm and danger. Charged with negligence - yes Murder - eh....I don't want to be on that jury of peers!! Thats my story and I'm stickin' to it :lol:
Just to entice quality employees was my line of thinking. If this is a mom and pop shop, and Starbucks is down the road... I don't know either. Still formulating my opinion.
That's what I am wondering. So, hey let's put them on trial. :lol: And no, I don't agree with the gov't getting into my children's medical records and tracking us to make sure I paid that copay and got those stitches taken out that I could remove myself at home for free, see? Slippery slope starts here...
They haven't been charged with murder. They have been charged with Manslaughter in the Second Degree and below are the definitions. Manslaughter in the Second Degree when that person recklessly causes the death of another person. A person acts recklessly with respect to a death when that person: engages in conduct which creates or contributes to a substantial and unjustifaible risk that another person's death will occur, and when he or she is aware of and consciously disregards that risk, and when that risk is of such nature and degree that disregard of it consitutes a gross deviation from the standard of conduct that a reasonable person would observe in the situation.
Tell me where in the scripture does it say God said to trust in man over Him? And I want you to show me where in the scripture that God said to seek out medical resources before Him. So, I understand you are saying that God would not have healed the child and that the parents are guilty of manslaughter for believing that to be that case. No problem. I do understand. I'm just sorry that the majority of the world believes the same way. They say they believe in God, but when it comes down to it, they don't really believe after all.
Sorry SB....manslaughter, I knew that...... according to what you just posted here are my thoughts based on that definintion I don't think the parents were acting reckless, they knew what they were doing, praying to God believing he would heal her They did not think the risk was unjustifiale as they believed God would heal the child I don't think they were consciously aware of the risk because she wasn't going to die at least according to the mother. NOW...YES I do think there was a gross deviation from a standard of conduct (meaning a standard of conduct for parents would be to TAKE YOUR KID TO A DOCTOR) NOW I STILL DON'T WANT TO BE ON THAT JURY because I am still having a real hard time with this one.
No, I asked you for proof, since you are the one ultimately saying that we do not believe in GOD if we don't rely on him soley. I'm not saying that in so many terms, so I don't have to prove it. Since you are saying this in so many terms, then I'd also like to know how Faith in God (which is a matter of heart, between a person and God) is interrupted by seeing a doctor? I want to know where GOD tells us we can't seek medical help in time of sickness. << Genesis 50 >> King James Bible 1 And Joseph fell upon his father's face, and wept upon him, and kissed him. 2 And Joseph commanded his servants the physicians to embalm his father: and the physicians embalmed Israel. 3 And forty days were fulfilled for him; for so are fulfilled the days of those which are embalmed: and the Egyptians mourned for him threescore and ten days. Proverbs 17:22 22 A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones. Isaiah 38:21 For Isaiah had said, Let them take a lump of figs, and lay it for a plaister upon the boil, and he shall recover. Ezekiel 30:21 Son of man, I have broken the arm of Pharaoh king of Egypt; and, lo, it shall not be bound up to be healed, to put a roller to bind it, to make it strong to hold the sword. Those are examples of physicians and man helping GOD heal.
Not necessarily, I would convict them if they honestly believed that a god(s) would take care of their child, because then they were not good enough Christians/pagans/whatever to make their god(s) fill their needs. If you are going to place the care into a deities hands then I think you have to make sure that it is a competent deity.
But not once did God say, "Use a doctor instead of Me." Shall I cite scripture where Jesus healed without a doctor? Would that change your mind?
