Faith-based special plates deemed UNCONSTITUTIONAL in NC

How about those who preach ethnic purity, but don't wear white sheets?

I'm trying to understand where you draw the line. Are you against those who don't believe the way you do? Or only those groups who use violence to make statements that you oppose?

 

I don't quite remember that in the Bible. Which town did he deny miracles because they had a lack of faith, and which groups wanted something "more spectacular"?

 

Clif: you're a tough customer, my friend.

I'll just have to draw that line when I come to it.

I can tell you are well read.

Have you ever read Josh McDowell's book, The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict?

If not, try it out and let's talk about it.

I told my wife I wanted to get down your way when the 4042 group gets together at a local place, so I can meet some of you.

I always like these kinds of conversations face to face.

We lose alot of context when we're not able to see each other.

Kent

 

Fair enough.

Thank you, I try.

Haven't read it. Might put it on my winter reading list.

 

Clif: here's some scripture:

Jesus went out from there and came into His hometown; and His disciples followed Him.

When the Sabbath came, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, "Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands?

"Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?" And they took offense at Him.

Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in his own household."

And He could do no miracle there except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed them.

And He wondered at their unbelief. And He was going around the villages teaching. Mark 6:1-6

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When they had set a day for Paul, they came to him at his lodging in large numbers; and he was explaining to them by solemnly testifying about the kingdom of God and trying to persuade them concerning Jesus, from both the Law of Moses and from the Prophets, from morning until evening.

Some were being persuaded by the things spoken, but others would not believe.

And when they did not agree with one another, they began leaving after Paul had spoken one parting word, "The Holy Spirit rightly spoke through Isaiah the prophet to your fathers,

saying,
'GO TO THIS PEOPLE AND SAY,
"YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND;
AND YOU WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE;
FOR THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME DULL,
AND WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR,
AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES;
OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT SEE WITH THEIR EYES,
AND HEAR WITH THEIR EARS,
AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART AND RETURN,
AND I WOULD HEAL THEM."'

Acts 28:23-27

Kent

 

That is neither my statement nor my question. You're quoting the wrong person now. You asked me to back up my statement, which wasn't a statement at all.

 

That's not lack of faith, it's lack of belief. Faith is believing without seeing. They saw but did not believe. There was no faith involved.

 

Could be because the Masons themselves refer to their organization as a fraternal organization. While one must profess a belief in "a supreme being" to belong to the Masons, they do not spread the gospel of Jesus Christ. No prayers are ever offered in a Masonic meeting in the name of Jesus, and a member can swear their oaths on any religious book of their choosing. Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc., may all be members of the Masons.

 

Going to be interesting to see if this Florida plate passes

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9083RK80&show_article=1

Text in case we lose the link:

Florida lawmakers debate offering a Christian license plate

MIAMI (AP) 4/24/08 - Florida drivers can order more than 100 specialty license plates celebrating everything from manatees to the Miami Heat, but one now under consideration would be the first in the nation to explicitly promote a specific religion.

The Florida Legislature is considering a specialty plate with a design that includes a Christian cross, a stained-glass window and the words "I Believe."

Rep. Edward Bullard, the plate's sponsor, said people who "believe in their college or university" or "believe in their football team" already have license plates they can buy. The new design is a chance for others to put a tag on their cars with "something they believe in," he said.

If the plate is approved, Florida would become the first state to have a license plate featuring a religious symbol that's not part of a college logo. Approval would almost certainly face a court challenge.

The problem with the state manufacturing the plate is that it "sends a message that Florida is essentially a Christian state" and, second, gives the "appearance that the state is endorsing a particular religious preference," said Howard Simon, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida.

The "I Believe" license plate still has a way to go before it reaches the roads. The proposal is part of a package of license plates being debated in the Senate and ready for a floor vote. In the House, the bill that would authorize the plate has passed one committee 8-2. The Legislature's annual session ends May 2.

Some lawmakers say the state should be careful. Rep. Kelly Skidmore said she is a Roman Catholic and goes to Mass on Sundays, but she believes the "I Believe" plate is inappropriate for the government to produce.

"It's not a road I want to go down. I don't want to see the Star of David next. I don't want to see a Torah next. None of that stuff is appropriate to me," said Skidmore, a Democrat who voted against the plate in committee. "I just believe that."

Florida's specialty license plates require the payment of additional fees, some of which go to causes the plates endorse.

One plate approved in 2004, displaying the motto "Family First," funds Sheridan House, which provides family programs but also sees its purpose as "sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Bible" and "information about the Christian faith."

The bill creating the "I Believe" plate would also create an "In God We Trust" plate to benefit the children of soldiers and law enforcement officers whose parents have died. It also could face opposition as a violation of the separation of church and state.

An Indiana plate with the same "In God We Trust" phrase has been challenged by the ACLU, but the courts so far have deemed it legal, arguing that it is comparable with other specialty plates.

This isn't the first time a Florida license plate design has created religious controversy. In 1999, lawmakers approved a bright yellow "Choose Life" license plate with a picture of a boy and girl. It raises money for agencies that encourage women to not have abortions.

That generated a court battle, with abortion rights groups saying the plate had religious overtones. But it was ruled legal, and about a dozen states now have similar plates.

A "Trust God" license plate was proposed in Florida in 2003. It would have given money to Christian radio stations and charities, but was never produced.

Earlier this year, a legislative committee was shown an image of a "Trinity" plate that showed a Christlike figure with his arms outstretched. It and two other plates were voted down.

The group asking for the "I Believe" plate, the Orlando-based nonprofit Faith in Teaching Inc., supports faith-based schools activities. The plate would cost drivers an extra $25 annual fee.

Approving the plate could open the state to legal challenges, according to Josie Brown, who teaches constitutional law at the University of South Carolina. And it's not certain who would win.

"It would be an interesting close call," Brown said.

Simon, of the ACLU, said approval of the plate could prompt many other groups to seek their own designs, and they could claim discrimination if their plans were rejected. That could even allow the Ku Klux Klan to get a plate, Simon said.

Bullard, the plate's sponsor, isn't sure all groups should be able to express their preference. If atheists came up with an "I Don't Believe" plate, for example, he would probably oppose it.

___

On the Net:

ACLU: http://www.aclu.org

Faith in Teaching Inc.: http://www.faithinteaching.org

 

Well I hate to say it but there are some beliefs out there that are full of hate no matter what you believe or not. THOSE are that ones that don't need to be promoted. I don't know of too many "beliefs" that are gung ho on "hate" based promotions. Hateful ones need to be SQUASHED....PERIOD.

 

Heres a quick mod, you can use it to make it appear as though you have a religious, or even sacrilegious plate.

• take a piece of paper and trace out the licence plate.
• slide it over about 4 inches, and trace it again.
• cut the total line out to make a template.
• with white spray paint, make the entire field white.
• place your licence plate on this.
• use whatever designs or silver plated fish or spaghetti flavored flying monster you want in the 4 inch margin.
• ????
• Profit.

 

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NO GO in Florida - this bill died in Committee 5/2/08

http://www.flsenate.gov/session/index.cfm?Mode=Bills&SubMenu=1&BI_Mode=ViewBillInfo&BillNum=2010

Florida, however, did create an "In God We Trust" special plate, which NC had done previously. My bride has one on her car.

 

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Now, I'm puzzled.

Here's an article I just read that says the "I Believe" license plate bill was passed. Gotta do some more digging.

http://www.thestate.com/satopinion/story/420319.html

 

The second article is for SC not FL.

 

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Bear with me, these posts are mainly for my benefit and future reference.

Here's the final bill as passed. No "I Believe" license plate.

Not sure where the writer of the above article got his info.

http://laws.flrules.org/files/Ch_2008-038.pdf

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POST SCRIPT: The article is about SOUTH CAROLINA passing a faith-based plate, not Florida.

 

Would they let Westboro Baptist Church followers have their own plates if this passes? Along with the Agnostics, Hindus, Vodoin and Islamic people?

 

Big News - South Carolina has an "I Believe" plate

No wonder I was confused, I was reading an article about the South Carolina legislature approving a faith-based plate, not Florida, which indeed did defeat such a proposal.

Now I really have to do some more research.

Read a little more carefully this time.

The same theme, "I Believe", threw me off.

- - - - -
Added article: http://religionclause.blogspot.com/2008/05/south-carolina-legislature-authorizes-i.html

http://www.scstatehouse.net/cgi-bin...117&conid=3820280&result_pos=0&keyval=1171329

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2008/05/todays-photo-so.html

 

No offense... but then why not just get a blog or even save in word docs on your hd?

 

*snort. Yeah, the agnostics could simply say "I don't believe"

 

:jester: