So, until they admit they were wrong, I'm not allowed to suggest that they may have ruled incorrectly? Exactly what country do you live in?
No, you can opine they were wrong all you like, but the fact is their ruling IS by definition Constitutional. It is not the country that is the problem it is which world ... in the real world things are not as you claim. Remember you claimed the "inalienable rights" cannot be impacted by even an Amendment?
No it is not. First, I did not say "inalienable", I said "unalienable". (Try reading the Declaration of Independence) And, by definition, unalienable rights cannot be taken away. That's what makes them unalienable.
Well stated. Hopefully it is stated well enough for Clif to understand becuase I don't think he is getting it.
hello - my two cents.... If i personally want to believe in God that is up to me, (i do), but not everyone does. I think the billboards are ok and not hurting anyone or a plot to discredit anyone or any particular religion. No one should be alone or feel alone. if those billboards help even a hand full of people out then they are ok in my book. Allowing them is the Christian thing to do. AS far as that government thing - I cringe every time we have someone say grace at a work holiday function and they mention "in Jesus' name we pray" or give thanks or whatever. Not because it offends me or annoys me, but it shows a defiant lack of respect for those around me that may not be of the same religious thought. That is unfair to those who believe differently. We should be allowed to give thanks to whom ever we see fit. Prayer in government should be a personal matter and not aloud and in your face. This country was founded on Religous freedom and no over zealous christians should stand up and take that right away from anyone. His message said to love everyone as I love you, basically. So kindness and thoughtfulness should be extended to all, not just those who believe as we do. I work with a Muslim man who is wonderful, but not a Christian. Yet he has attributes that many so-called Christians lack. I do not believe he will go to He11. The religion he is, is what his parents were. It is what he knows. I believe that God is merciful and that he understands that good people are all over the world and many just do not know the ways of Christianity. He will judge the accordingly. Not me and not you. God will be the judge.
On this, we agree. That is how you feel. Do you care how they feel? That is the way your religion is, and I respect that, but what about my religion? Why do expect me to respect yours but you refuse to respect mine? Neither should over zealous atheists. The founders of our country were very wary of a king insisting they pray a certain way or face prison, therefore the very first sentence of the very first amendment addressed this. "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of a religion" They also feared being told they could not pray in their own way so they also added, "nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof". Now, if you really feel obligated to pray to my God because I have the Ten Commandments posted in my office or a Nativity placed on my front yard, then you have issues that run a lot deeper than any law can control. What? You say that placing them in my office and front yard does not make you feel obligated? Then why do you feel obligated because the office is in a government building and the yard is the one in front of the city hall? The argument that I hear is that, by placing religious icons on government property, then the government is tacitly establishing a religion. That, sir and/or madam, is total bull. The Constitution forbids it. That's the same Constitution that you say stops me from displaying said icons. So, either the Constitution is impotent or it's not, which is it? You are all rather intelligent people. Do you really, honestly, believe that you could possibly be thrown in prison because you don't pray if a Nativity is displayed on the City Hall grounds? Do you really, honestly and truely believe that you will be forced to recite prayers in prison if the Ten Commandments are displayed in a courtroom? What is the real reason you don't want the Nativity on the City Hall grounds or the Ten Commendments in the courtroom?
You are hearing wrong, as it is indicating a tacit support of a religion not establishing a religion. We can agree on the misunderstanding you have would be "total bull". You are not stopped from displaying the icons, just the government and governmental employees on public property. It is not impotent, you are just very confused. Not relevent to the discussion since your assumptions are unconnected to the actual rulings. See the above reply. Because the Constitution prohibits the government from indicating support for any religion over any other, but that seems to be lost on you.
Then there is no rule against it. Oh? Where does it say that the government can't show support for any religion over another? It does say that the government is forbidden from creating a law restpecting the establishment of a religion, but your quote above seems to indicate that there is some other amendment that says that the government can't show support for a religion. Here, let me help you so that you don't have to hunt down the first amendment:
No, it is more of a law against it No, same Amendment, just using the LEGAL determination of what it covers rather than your wishful thinking determination. : Did not need to, but you do need to give all of the USSC rulings related to the determination of what is and is not part of that Amendment, just like EVERY other aspect of the Constitution. :mrgreen: Your selective application of literal interpretations of the Constitution are really starting to become boring to me, especailly when you try to ignore any correction because you do not want to believe it is correct. :beathorse: :banghead: :beathorse:
This one really takes the cake. I understood the Athiest Billoard, but this is just OTT. I think they could have come up with something better, you know - a catch phrase like "Jesus is the reason for the season". How about "The Holy Ghostess ain't got nothing on the Solstice" - it is still passive aggressive, but doesn't smack of intentional offensiveness. Atheist Sign Joins Capitol Holiday Display This Year http://www.kirotv.com/news/18172046/detail.html
The article did have one valid point. Since the town erected a Menorah, and called it that instead of a candleabrum, then, equitably, they should call the "Holiday Tree" a "Christmas Tree".
Just like Christians, there are all types of Agnostics and Atheists. I would say these are the equivalent of Fundamentalist in the Atheist world. Although I agree with a number of the points, it really could have been addressed better.
Go into any government agency right now and you will see office cubes with christmas decorations and some offices with xmas trees. I think in your personal space, cube etc, if your not pushing your religion on other's your ok. Why can the Governor have a XMAS tree if its Govt property?
