Papa Johns on 42 GRRRRRRRRrrrrrrr

I know the owners and they are nice people.

One of their sons was killed on 1010 near Grill Rd a year or so ago.

 

It's pizza place, not a church or mosque.

 

And you tell all you see, who happen to be reading their religious tracts and books this?

I will thank you for giving me a new place to check out.

 

How often do you go into any business where they are reading the bible out loud? Made me feel very uncomfortable. There is a time and place for everything.

 

Yes, their is but I believe an owner has the right to make that choice unless we want the government to dictate that as well. I see Christians praying and reading the Bible in restaurants and don't think too much about it, you?

Sherry

 

If it made you feel uncomfortable why didn't you ask him about it, and tell him how you felt. It was an opportunity for an exchange of awareness. Rather than tackle this head on and allow your discomfort to color your feelings, as it apparently has, you choose to presume a value that may not be accurate.

What if he was someone who had heard X about Islam or the Koran, and was trying to find out? Perhoas he was trying to expand his knowlege. Or is he "one of those" whom you just know to be "one of those"?

Did he sneer at you? Make fun of you? Spit in your food? Not take your money? Seem to take umbrage because you shopped there?

All kinds of folks do that, and they're not all Muslim. Check out some of the stuff that has happened in fast food restaurants by American kids.

 

Maybe you should read up on the Koran. Maye you'll feel a little uncomfortable eating there. I guess I'm one of those infidels who buys his pizza somewhere else.

KORAN commands to kill infidels:
Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98
On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161
Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191
Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39
Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216
(different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.
..... martyrs.... Enter heaven - Surah 3:140-43
If you should die or be killed in the cause of Allah, His mercy and forgiveness would surely be better than all they riches they amass. If you should die or be killed, before Him you shall all be gathered. - 3:157-8
You must not think that those who were slain in the cause of Allah are dead. They are alive, and well-provided for by their Lord. - Surah 3:169-71
Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of God, whether he is slain or victorious, soon we shall give him a great reward. - Surah 4:74
Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil. - 4:76
But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. - 4:89
Therefore, we stirred among them enmity and hatred, which shall endure till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will declare to them all that they have done. - 5:14
O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54
Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme - 8:39
O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. - 8:65
It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. - 8:67
Allah will humble the unbelievers. Allah and His apostle are free from obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. - 9:2-3
When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5
Believers! Know that idolators are unclean. - 9:28
Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. - 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.
Whether unarmed or well-equipped, march on and fight for the cause of Allah, with your wealth and your persons. - 9:41
O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. - 9:73
Allah has purchased of their faithful lives and worldly goods, and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for His cause, kill and be killed. - 9:111
Fight unbelievers who are near to you. 9:123 (different translation:
Believers! Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find harshness in you. (another source: ) Ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers....
As for those who are slain in the cause of Allah, He will not allow their works to perish. He will vouchsafe them guidance and ennoble their state; He will admit them to the Paradise He has made known to them. - 10:4-15
Allah has cursed the unbelievers and proposed for them a blazing hell. - 33:60
Unbelievers are enemies of Allah and they will roast in hell. - 41:14
When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4
(different translation: ) When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.
Those who are slain in the way of Allah - he will never let their deeds be lost. Soon will he guide them and improve their condition, and admit them to the Garden, which he has announced for them. - 47:5
Muslims are harsh against the unbelievers, merciful to one another. - 48:25
Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. Through them, Allah seeks to enrage the unbelievers. - 48:29
Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. - 66:9
The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. - 98:51

 

hmmm.. what about Deuteronomy 21.. stoning?

What about the crusades? Convert or die?

The killing of non-believers goes both ways.

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)


Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

 

WOW, talk about going off course on a thread, from pizza to debating religion:lol::lol:

 

Then came Jesus and the new testament... and the term forgiveness...

not a clear comparison on your part.

 

one thing is a given here... you will see it all.... :cheers::cheers:

 

Now I am craving a calzone for lunch from Papa's.

 

Actually, it's quite clear. My point was to show that the killing of non-believers is in both books. Whether or not the new testament presents forgiveness as the alternative, is not the issue.

What it comes down to is that people of a particular faith, usually extremist, believe that their faith is the only faith and everyone else is wrong. They'll go to any means and take the book literally word-for-word or twist it around to the way it works for them. This works for all religions.

It's all left up to interpretation. It's like this.... If someone says, "the sky is grey", one person will think it's about to rain, another will think it's only cloudy, another will think it's gloomy, another will think something else. Then they'll debate and argue until they're so angry at each other trying to prove that their interpretation is the best that they'll want to eliminate the "infidels" or "non-believers" because they think they are wrong. If the wrong goes away, there'll only be a right.

If this person wanted to read the koran, get over it. He/She has the constitutional right to freedom of religion. Doesn't the new testament preach about tolerance and forgiveness?

Now... can I have some pizza please? I'm getting hungry.

 

Christians didn't kill over 3000 people on 9/11/01 in the name of religion. Our soldiers are being shot, blown up or wounded by these nuts one a daily basis. I served over there and seen first hand how radical this so called religion is. There are tons of sleeper cells still waiting here to get thier marching orders. I'm not going to support any person or business that practices such a evil religion.

 

Over 200,000 were killed during the crusades in the name of religion alone. And numerous more over the past 2000 years, in the name of religion. 3000 people on one day is a drop in the hat compared to the death caused by christianity. Other religions have killed thousands more. I don't condone any of it. For the record, I DO NOT believe those lives on September 11th should be forgotten and left unjustified. I lost family that day. I believe to bring justice to the people behind the attacks based on their actions not because of their religion.

I support our troops 100% and believe they're there doing their job that they got sent to do but wish there was a little better direction from the top to get the rest of you all home. We're just as bad by trying to shove "democracy" down their throats, but that's another whole issue in itself. Yes, we're losing people every day, but do you remember that we're blowing up and shooting innocent lives as well, or is that just "war"? So I guess the creed is "They're a muslim. They're wrong and must die?" Hmm.. that seems to sound a lot like what I said in my last post.

If you've done any research, muslims are primarily peaceful people and no, also for the record, I am not a muslim. They're just like pretty much everyone else and just want to be left alone and live their lives. The extremist are the ones that are taking it to the next level. You shouldn't condemn a whole religion based on a few groups of extremist. The same goes for christians, jews, hindi's, buddhist, etc., etc..

As for the pizza shop, If you don't want to shop there, then don't. That's your own choice, but if you're doing it based that they were reading the koran is pathetic. You don't know why he or she was reading it. Maybe they were reading it to learn more about the religion or for a class. Know why before passing judgement.

 

Well you're right on the extremist.. but the true Muslims haven't really come out against them hard enough either by more openly condemning them and taking a hard line stance to disassociate themselfs from them.

 

I wasn't around for the crusades, were you? I live in today's world. If you believe this is a nice and peaceful religion then take a trip to the Middle East. I bet you couldn't go a day before getting your throat cut. This religion is so full of hate for us. They are teaching in their schools from kindergarten on to kill us infidels. This takes place in Somalia, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and on and on. So to say there is only a “few” extremist in this so called “beautiful religion” is just plain stupid.

 

They probably don't based on fear. If they did speak out, they would be considered infidels and be slain. That's how the extremist groups get into power, they create fear. That's what they hoped to do to the US when they attacked us, but all it did was "[re]awaken[ed] the sleeping giant" like it did at Pearl Harbor.

 

Way to lump everybody together.... It IS a beautiful religion, as are many others. I hope that non-christians don't judge all of us by Rev Wright or Westboro. Every religious group has it's share of extremists or just plain idiots.

 

I'm with Loki and Cleopatra. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a religion that hasn't at some point violated basic human rights to forward its own agenda. And there are crazies everywhere ... some of them just happen to be religious crazies.

Now, back to pizza ... I can't eat Papa John's anymore—too much vitamin G. So who makes a good, less greasy pizza around here?