My 17 year old son came in the house last night with a ticket in his hand for speeding. Even if he were, the procedure that followed is in question and I need some input. First of all, he was in our driveway when the police pulled up behind him. He was apparently questioned about doing drugs/drinking and was patted down. He was driving my vehicle, which was also searched. The officer didn't "ask" for consent, just made the statement like "If I search the car am I going to find anything?". Can they search the vehicle (and my child for that matter) without giving a reason? And, do they not have to have MY permission since it is my vehicle and he is a minor?
Well first of all, they have to ask for consent to search a vehicle. Now they may have asked in such a way that it did not seem like they were asking, and implied that they have the right to search it. But you can always say no. If you say no, the officer has the option to stay there with the vehicle while they get a search warrant (if he wants to go that route). But as to the fact that it is your vehicle, I don't think that matters. He was in possession of the vehicle at the time of the stop.
Isnt getting a warrant at that point impossible though? I know they can get one if they have a "tip" or want to get into the trunk with other very strong PC (in which case they are searching the rest of the car's "reasonable reach" anyway). Without some PC, if the driver says "No" it is pretty much the end of the conversation legally. People are afraid to say no I think, not realizing there is no search warrant incoming in 99.999% of cases.
They have to ask to search the car, but I'm not sure exactly what language has to be used in order for someone to argue that they didn't. In other words, it sounds like this officer probably did ask. Or at least from the little quote I'm getting it sounds like the standard script for when you're pulled over and they suspect something. They can search the car and it doesn't matter whose car it is. Now, I can only think of a few scenarios that would call for a person to refuse a search: 1. There is something in the car they do not want the police to find. 2. They are a liberal windbag who is going to use the opportunity to blather about their rights even though they don't have anything in their car. :lol: 3. They are too scared to know what to do and they panic. Bottom line is that I'd be glad that my child was pulled over and potentially saved from causing an accident that could hurt themself or others. It's such a huge problem in this area and I can only commend the police and give them a huge thank you for cracking down on it!! I'm curious, was there anything in the car after all?
Other folks will have to ask their LEO spouses/friends to back this up, but if they can see something in plain sight I believe the do not have to ask to search. I don't know what the procedure is if they can smell something like drugs, alcohol. I know they can call the K-9 unit and then they must have procedure from there in terms of if the dog smells something whether they can then search without consent. I don't know why people would be afraid to say no if they have nothing to hide. I would be embarressed by my messy car, but that's about it.
I may be way off base with this but doesn't there have to be PC and you may state the response such that they declare what they are searching for. If anything else is found, it is not grounds for arrest. Example: Several of us had been to Orlando and we were still in a line coming up I-95. One fella was driving some little sports car and he had a pony tail but was clean cut, etc. Of all the vehicles in our little "caravan" he was singled out and stopped. He was asked about a search and replied in the afore mentioned manner and there was no problem. They were looking for drugs and his concern was a gun in the car. This was before the concealment permits, etc. And I may not have a clue what I am taking up this space for but I think that is how it played out.
I'm not saying my son shouldn't have been pulled over; from what i heard he did do something silly. But, he was charged with speeding and I have never known anyone to be "searched" for speeding. They questioned him if he had been doing drugs or drinking last night and if he ever has done either or had he ever been around it. As far as I can tell, they gave no reason to search him or the car. And by the way, no there was nothing in the car but some old french fries and half empty water bottles.
The bottom line is that either they followed procedure or they didn't. It's going to be their word against your teenage son's. What you have to decide is if you're going to pursue some sort of action about it. If you decide to fight the ticket and get an attorney you can ask them about it. Best of luck!
And folks can do whatever they want when asked if the cops can search the car, it's one of those other things I could care less about and has already been discussed on this board so I'm not going to enter into a new discussion with the same folks, but if you're going to be one of those people who is going to throw a fit and delay the process so it takes an hour please pull as far off the road as you can so to not delay the rest of us or put the officer (or officers) in any danger of passing motorists. :cheers:
Just say "No" You have a right to say "No". You can say, I do not give you permission to search my car without probable cause". If the cop gets mad and makes threats, file a complaint. If he searches your car anyway, he is a dirty cop and needs a complaint filed against him. Be careful with your rights...police are only too glad to take them away. If you have something illegal, let him search, but if you do not, you don't have to. If ordered out of the car, roll up your windows, get out and lock your car. Do not offer to give the keys to the officer.
one other point... I forgot to mention. Be cooperative, but not to the point of fear. Ask the cop if he is detaining you or are you free to go. He must them show his hand or let you go. Dont let police intimidate you. If he does, he is a sorry bully. Most police are courteous ... so should you be, even if he tries to bully you.
The ones delaying the process are the officers with contempt for the 4th Amendment searching cars with nothing but old french fries. This wasted time may have been better spent on another stop where some drunk has a case of empty beer cans in the back seat.
I'm looking at this from a different perspective. We have had 30+ kids killed in Johnston County over the last couple of years. Is it possible that the cop is tired of knocking on parents door to deliver the news and used the opportunity to try and shake him up a little?
As a police officers wife and mother this is the way that I was looking at it too! Also there is a new law in effect that a teen will be taken down to a magistrate if they are caught speeding over 15mph.
:iagree: I personally prefer never to have to attend another funeral of a young person who was killed in an auto accident. Parents, young people think they're invincible, their brains are hardwired that way. It's your responsibility to lead by example, to drive safely and to instruct your offspring that you expect the same of them! That is all! Rant over!
I feel the same way. Just because I have nothing to hide, does not mean I should just give up my right to privacy. It's the principle of the matter for me.
Agreed. With that said, I'd probably cooperate just to get done. When DH was active duty and we lived on base, I got tagged one morning to get my car searched by the K-9 unit at the base gate. Made me late to work. :lol: My boss at the time cracked up when I told him why I was late. Myself? I was praying they didn't find anything since it was a used car and I hadn't searched it when we bought it, you never know!! :mrgreen:
If your son was swerving or crossing the yellow or white lines on the road, I'm pretty sure that is probable cause. I was pulled over as a teen late at night because I was crossing the yellow line...not speeding, just not staying in my lane very well on an empty back road (all but me and cop of course). He inquired about whether or not I had been drinking or doing drugs....i had not. I was just tired. The point is if your son was driving in any way that might make them suspect drugs or alcohol they can and will question the driver and possibly search the vehicle with permission. As another poster stated, there are all types of way to get permission. Your son may have been nervous and not realized that he gave consent. And because he is in possession of the vehicle, it doesn't matter who is on the registration or that he is a minor.
