There is so much land being developed

good one Grinder. Maybe Harvey would rather play farm sim where he could really make the big bucks without all the stress.

 

Well it really was a serious question to be honest. I am hoping to see how Harvey thinks development should happen and so forth. A lot of people have ideas on how things should work. Im just interested in his. if he posts his "vision", i think it will be very unrealistic but maybe i will be surprised.

 

when you reckon they gonna replace the little bridge on 42 between walmart and cornwallis ?

 

Probably not until they 4 lane all the way to Cornwallis and then all the way back to the 70 BYP and then all the way into Clayton, and then all the way out to Flowers.

Give or take.

 

I'll play.

First of all, from your directions to this land I believe you just described Benson. 42/210 do not intersect. The next intersection on I-40 past the 210 interchange is the exit for I-95. So not real sure where you are referring to, but I think I see you point: land in the middle of nowhere. Why does this matter?: proximity to Raleigh is what helped create the Cleveland boom and this is a huge factor in how an area can, or should, be developed. Development doesn't happen all at once and you cannot create one plan and expect everyone to follow it, I get it. Business doesn't come until you have the rooftops, so some of it requires it to made up as you go along. But you can have a code/ordinances/plan in place that helps guide responsible development without the hodge-podge, willy-nilly, square-peg-round-hole issues we have here.

I suppose you can start with a comprehensive land use plan and since I have carte blanche, I would probably set aside a central business district (or two). I would look for well buffered areas (natural breaks like streams, topo,etc.) to allow/encourage residential development and create enough separation from commercial development (but not too far away either) and agriculture. I would keep in mind that the natural progression is from agriculture to either commercial or residential so this is something that needs to be accounted for in order to prevent incompatible uses colliding in the future (this is mitigated by ordinances and codes, such as buffer requirements, ingress/egress, setbacks, etc.). I would attempt to keep mobility in mind during this process.

I'll also give some good examples of what Johnston County has allowed over the years that are now not working in their favor (Congestion, beautification, property values, etc.). Granted, many of these things were allowed without the benefit of seeing into the future, yet common sense would have told anyone that these activities would not hold up long-term...but, Alas! That is the purpose of planning!

As you mentioned I do not have direct experience in development so you'll have to forgive some of the terminology.

1) Allowing subdivisions to plat lots on any main arterial road. Example(s): Cornwallis road at or around Pleasant Woods and South Hills(?). Busy road, one of the two main ingress/egress into heart of Cleveland from Raleigh where, if I had to guess, at least 60% of residents work (Also Cleveland School Rd.). Of course, roads get busier as time goes on, just look at Timber Dr. in Garner. Not all of those lots along Cornwallis are part of a subdivision, but where they were part of a much larger subdivision, they should have not allowed all of those driveways. Those lots should be turned inward and is a pretty egregious example of allowing the developer to get the most of out the land today at the sake of the future. This goes into he 'congestion' bucket, but also leads into the next item: beautification.

2) Not requiring basic HOA's to be set up to maintain common areas. Keep the 'It's not Cary' argument to yourself and bear with me. All I am asking for here is a simple HOA to administer a very meager fund (enough for basic maintenance) to maintain the common areas that developers create (Subdivision sign, landscaping berms, etc.) You cannot swing a dead cat in JoCo without hitting some gross subdivision sign overgrown with crabgrass, weeds, chipping paint, etc. Why? Because it is either 1) not common area at all and belongs to the property owner who has no clue it is on his land and doesn't maintain it, or 2) the developer didn't create a simple mechanism to have this maintained beyond the development life cycle (i.e., not his problem now). This also, affect property values.

3) Zoning. The propensity to allow General Business (GB) so close to residential is bad enough, but I realize it is unavoidable. What can be done is stricter codes/ordinances to help insulate the existing residential properties from what will likely become nuisance (light pollution, traffic, crime, etc.). Langdon Point and Dollar General on Cleveland School Rd. are a good example of this. Another good example is Austin Pond and Sheetz at Hwy 42 and Cornwalis. Sheetz is not the extent of the GB that will go there, I'm sure. Both of these examples of GB right on top of residential did not go nearly far enough to mitigate the traffic issues (short turn lanes, stupid yellow bars in median, etc.). I realize strict requirement can be afforded by someone like Sheetz, but is an obstacle to someone else. It is unfortunate, but it should also be the price for doing business.

I am sure we'll talk more and you'll have questions, but this should start us off. I gotta get back to work.

 

Hey Harvey,

Not a bad start really. I should say i left some info out, by accident, but you have to take it into account.

1. That size of an area will need to be rezoned PUD. Planned Unit Development. Currently there are 3 in Johnston County that i can recall. Flowers Plantation, Broadmoor and 1 more that i can never remember what it is. Within a PUD, you designate what zonings you want where and when. Basically on your master plan, this here is residential, over there and there is commercial, here is recreation and so forth. Kinda like a painting. You decide.

2. For a reference, Flowers Plantation started out around 3500 acres and was approved for 7300 residential lots, providing FP built and maintained their own sewer pump station.

3. For a project this size, you will need to turn in a master plan drawing to Johnston County to get it approved. What this does is once you get the master plan approved, you do not have to go back to JC every time you want to make a change. Meaning, you are approved for lets say 9000 residential lots. At some point you want to add multi family instead of single residential lots. No problem, as long as your denisty does not increase you can do what you want. Even adding commercial but you will show commercial areas on your master plan as it is.

4. Since we are in all theory here, you are shooting for a target of 10,000 total residential lots. This includes single residential and multi-family, condo's etc. No duplexes. They just dont sell.

5. 10k residential lots averages out to be 2 lots per acre. Roads have to be taken into account as well as commercial areas, recreation areas, greenway areas and so on. All of these lots will have sewer, no septic tanks and public water.

6. The average grocery store (Harris Teeter etc...) will not even consider coming into your area unless there are 3000 rooftops being lived in within a 1.5 mile radius of where you want them to come in. (im pretty sure its 1.5)

7. Chik-Fil-A says 40/42 is not busy enough to justify a store there. This info was current as of 2 years ago. Could have changed.

8. You will want a HOA. A pretty strict one. I hate them with a passion.

Now, if you dont want to play this version, then you can play what happened with 40/42 to begin with. Same general concept except when 40/42 got developed, it was not 1 tract of land. It was many and they got bought and developed at different times in different years with different regulations. You can go that route if you like.

 

actually I do know the timeline

 

Then you are up on me! I had always heard they will not do it until the sewer connects from Austin Pond up to 40/42 but that was years ago.

 

Not real sure how this fits into the 'game' as you started off by asking me what I would do with a blank slate. I assumed you wanted to see if I had any bearing on what it would take and I believe I accomplished that with some solid, albeit rough, understanding. These are very specific parameters that are basically espousing your experience in the area, which no one disputes. You are obviously in the know / in the business / in local government. The basis of my argument here is that JoCo doesn't, or didn't, have a plan nor have they been able to readjust and make a plan that fits the area's potential. If they have had a plan, it is being executed poorly. Granted, no single developer has been able to assemble something like Flowers in the area (not that Flowers needed assembling), so much of it had been developed ad hoc with little cohesiveness...and therein lies the problem. You can play SIMS all you want, but County officials lived it and didn't do a real good job in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I still live here and see the value in the community. However, I also see a reaping of what has been sowed through lax planning/zoning practices that will only get worse with time.

As for HOA's: I know why they get a bad rap, but people are predujiced when the so much as hear HOA. Not every HOA decides what color flag you can fly on your porch and measures your lawn height twice a week for compliance. Some HOA's can exist to collect about $25 a year to maintain the simple subdivision sign in front of a 40 unit subdivision. I have been wanting to take pictures of some of the subdivision signs around town, but never got around to it. I pass at least 1/2 a dozen on way to work every day that are overgrown and generally busted. Many people do not take pride in what they own anymore and that is unfortunate for those around those people. I did grab one of the interwebs though:


In Beaufort area. A few hundred dollars a year would fix this right up. Sad.

 

My neighbors voted to disband our HOA several years back (a few years before I moved in). Nobody in the neighborhood regrets it. We are a very close knit neighborhood too, we have a block party every year even with about 100 people attending. The majority of the homes are kept in excellent shape. Occasionally there is a neighbor that lets the grass get long or something, but nobody bats an eye. No HOA was one of the main reasons I bought my house here. We are still a neighborhood of 75 houses on an average of 1 acre each (I'm on 2.5 acres and my next door neighbors are on 10 and 5 acres).

 

Our HOA maintains most of the front of the entry ways into our S/D. Other than that, not worth a tinker's damn. No amenities, no nada. It appears that the developer continues to build here, which tends to nullify the strength in numbers of home owners.