House Bill 2 - A Lawyer's "Shell Game"

Discussion in 'Discussion Group' started by DWK, Apr 1, 2016.

  1. DWK

    DWK Well-Known Member

    Most of us are aware by now of the current ruckus over House Bill 2, specifically Section 1 which legislates biological gender and public bathroom laws. But as we argue back and forth, wring our hands over a very emotional issue for many people, (but one that really doesn't put any money in your pocket, or mine), are you aware that nobody is even noticing Part II, Section 2.1 which has nothing to do with public restrooms at all, but CAN affect your pocketbook, the pocketbook of your children, and hardworking North Carolinians everywhere, not just now, but also in the future? But let's back up a bit. Have you ever played that mesmerizing game that children play around the world called, appropriately enough: "The Shell Game"? Try as you might to follow the right shell, and I'll be darned if that shell gets lost in the mix every single time, and we're left scratching our heads wondering exactly how it happened. House Bill 2 is a little like that magician's clever shell trick, only this time the game is played at your expense because the lawyers don't think that you're paying any attention. Part 1 of the bill has attracted national attention so much, and has fired everybody up, (whatever your political beliefs) that poor old Part II is getting the short shrift, and that's exactly how it was designed. So what's in Part II of House Bill 2? Plenty - and here's the text complete with English translation, cuz we're all busy these days:

    House Bill 2
    Part II Statewide Consistency in Laws Related to Employment & Contracting

    Section 2.1.
    a.) This Article shall be known and may be cited as "The Wage and Hour Act".

    Translation: This bill concerns hourly wage control and how much money the state says that you
    can earn on an hourly basis. Huh? What in the world does this have to do with public restrooms, you say?
    Nothing.

    b.) The public policy of this State is declared as follows: the wage levels of employees, hour of labor,
    payment of earned wages, and the well-being of minors are subjects of concern requiring the
    Legislation to promote the general welfare of the people of the State without jeopardizing the
    competitive position of North Carolina business and industry.

    Translation: The State of North Carolina is "concerned" about everything it seems, from "wage levels of
    employees", number of hours you work, your pay checks, the "competitive business position of North Carolina", and even "the well-being of minors". (That's just so sweet of them to be so concerned that they would write it down like that!) But wait just a minute, you say. It's starting to sound like some kind of MONEY may be involved here! And it's also starting to BORE ME TO DEATH! And whatever happened to the restroom thing? Now, that was something that got me all fired up! Where did THAT go? Well, sorry, as exciting as it is, the bathroom thing is never mentioned again, but we'd better get back to our real clever lawyers, and Part II of the bill, or we're liable to miss something!

    b. (continued)

    The General Assembly declares that the general welfare of the State requires the enactment of
    this law under the police power of the State.

    Translation: the State has the power to control just about everything related to work, and if you have a wage, hourly dispute, or another employment grievance(s) with your employer, you probably won't get that far, since the State has reserved the right under this law to use police force against you, if necessary. I assume this means that if you try to lodge a complaint against your employer for not paying you what they said they would, or what you have rightfully earned, or any other typical employment grievance (the language is vague in the bill, but could affect many different working issues) that things could get a little dicey for you. But please don't be afraid. This law is concerned about the "protection of minors"!

    c. The provisions of this Article supersede and preempt any ordinance, regulation, or policy adopted or
    imposed by a unit of local government or other political subdivision of the State that regulates or
    imposes any requirement upon an employee pertaining compensation of employees, such as wage
    level of employees, hours of labor, payment of earned wages, benefits, leave, or well-being of
    minors in the workforce. There they go again about their concern about "minors in the workforce"! I guess they keep repeating that phrase to make it all "warm and fuzzy". There's a few more lines, but you get the gist, I think.)

    Translation: The State of North Carolina will be the folks who determine how much your work is worth, how long your day will be, (you are entirely capable of working 16 hours a day, you ungrateful bum!), how and when you are paid, benefits (?) (ummm....pretty vague language in there as to the actual meaning of "benefits"). It won't matter if there is another recession in the future, if local housing costs skyrocket, (oh, quit grumbling - you can always live in one of those new apartments in downtown Raleigh!) or if gas and food costs increase. It is what It is. You won't be able to file a grievance because the law locks you and everybody else out! And if you complain or rail against it, well, there will be bail to pay!

    I hope you have enjoyed playing "Lawyer's Shell Game" tonight, always a fascinating and fun sleight of hand, if not a total strong arm tactic. If you hurry, you can catch more of the "shiny distracting shell maneuverings", that is HB 2, Part 1: Public Facilities & Securities, also known as the "Bathroom Bill". It doesn't have anything at all to do with something as boring as your job, or your wallet, even though it's part of the same bill, but enjoy the show!
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2016
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  2. Wayne Stollings

    Wayne Stollings Well-Known Member

    Not to mention Section 3, which stops any and all state litigation for employee or other discrimination:

    "§ 143-422.13. Investigations; conciliations.
    The Human Relations Commission in the Department of Administration shall have the authority to receive, investigate, and conciliate complaints of discrimination in public accommodations. Throughout this process, the Human Relations Commission shall use its good offices to effect an amicable resolution of the complaints of discrimination. This Article does not create, and shall not be construed to create or support, a statutory or common law private right of action, and no person may bring any civil action based upon the public policy expressed herein."

    The result is that any civil discrimination action with in the state of NC has to now be filed in Federal Court, which is more expensive for all parties and takes longer to reach a conclusion.
     
  3. DWK

    DWK Well-Known Member

    Right, thanks! I meant to add that, but I got tired. I wish more people would read the entire bill that could personally effect them, and the entire North Carolina workforce, much, much more than the "public bathroom" controversy would in reality here.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2016
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  4. poppin cork

    poppin cork Well-Known Member

    I agree. And IMO, this is where we are getting let down by the press. They too had rather use it for political fodder than give us a non biased view of the true advantages and/or disadvantages of the law. The whole damn thing is nothing but politics. It started in Charlotte for election use and continued in Raleigh for election use. I'm no conspiracy theorist, but this entire charade was planned pretty well from the beginning.
     
    DWK likes this.
  5. trident2

    trident2 Well-Known Member

    popping cork, very well said. This is one of the reasons why, IMO; we don't need so many (if any) "lawyer politicians." Usually, it seems to create a conflict of interest to have lawyers in charge of legislation because the legislation is typically warped to favor lawyers and not "we the people."
     
  6. DWK

    DWK Well-Known Member

    "The press" is just nothing but online "yellow journalism" these days, in bed with "click bait", and meant to stir up strong emotions that galvanize the extreme opinions on both sides. The end result is that while people are fighting in the streets over essentially "non-issues" that are unlikely to affect them personally, (remember, trans people are only 0.03 % of the total US population, and extremely rare in these parts, while this bill affects 100% of North Carolina workers!) the lawyers in Raleigh have duped you yet again!
     
    Auxie, Hught and poppin cork like this.
  7. Hught

    Hught Well-Known Member

    DWK, you called it, but somebody in the main stream press finally got it . . .

    The North Carolina ‘bathroom bill’ HB2 explained

    The new law did more than repeal the Charlotte ordinance. It made the state’s law on antidiscrimination — which covers race, religion, national origin, color, age, biological sex and handicaps — the final word. Meaning cities and local governments can’t expand “employment” or “public accommodations” protections to others, such as on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity.

    Minimum wage also falls under the state’s antidiscrimination law, so this law means local governments aren’t able to set their own minimum wages beyond the state standard.

    But the next time you hear about North Carolina and the “bathroom bill,” at least you can say, “Now I get it.”

    P.S. Might be a little generous calling this the Mains Stream Press​
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2016
  8. Sherry A.

    Sherry A. Well-Known Member

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-north-carolina-lgbt-law-20160401-story.html

    North Carolina Gov. Pat McCrory met with gay-rights advocates bearing a letter signed by more than 100 corporate executives urging him to repeal the nation's first state law limiting the bathroom options for transgender people.

    The law also excludes lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people from anti-discrimination protections, and blocks municipalities from adopting their own anti-discrimination and living wage rules.

    The governor "appreciated the opportunity to sit down and deal with these complex issues through conversation and dialogue as opposed to political threats and economic retaliation," his spokesman, Josh Ellis, said in a statement Thursday.

    The advocates declined to describe McCrory's response.

    Promoted stories from PoliticsChatter.com

    Some companies are already reconsidering doing business in the country's ninth-largest state.

    New Jersey-based Braeburn Pharmaceuticals said it is "reevaluating our options based on the recent, unjust legislation" whether to build a $20 million manufacturing and research facility in Durham County. The 50 new jobs paying an average of nearly $76,000 a year were announced two weeks ago.

    Lionsgate, the California-based entertainment company, had been lining up hotel and equipment rentals and hiring more than 100 workers in North Carolina, but decided to shoot its pilot episode for a comedy series in Canada instead, said Jennifer Irvine, a Charlotte production coordinator.


    [​IMG]

    Gay-rights groups and others who say they'll be wronged by North Carolina's new law preventing Charlotte and other local governments from passing anti-discrimination rules are trying to stop the measure in court. March 28, 2016. (AP)

    Charlotte convention officials and the organizers of one of the world's largest furniture markets say some customers have pulled out, also citing the new law.

    Changing business plans is much more difficult for companies with existing investments in buildings, equipment and people, but the outsized lobbying power of major corporations could reshape how prospective talent and investors perceive North Carolina as a place they want to be, business observers said.

    "These companies have made long-term investments or are thinking about long-term investments in North Carolina" and won't likely retreat solely due to this law, said DJ Peterson, who advises companies on political, social and economic issues as founder of Longview Global Advisors, a Los Angeles consulting firm.

    But as businesses showed Georgia this week, "the political pressure, the visibility they're bringing to the issue, politicians do have to pay attention to it," Peterson said.

    [​IMG]
    'Religious freedom' laws are about the freedom to discriminate

    After Walt Disney Co., Marvel Studios and Salesforce.com threatened to take their business elsewhere and the NFL suggested Atlanta could lose its bids for the 2019 or 2020 Super Bowl, Georgia Gov. Nathan Deal vetoed a measure that would have allowed individuals, businesses and faith organizations to deny services to others based on their "sincerely held religious beliefs."

    Leaders of many economic sectors signed onto the letter. Tourism is represented by Hilton, Marriott and Starwood hotels; AirBnB, Uber and Lyft; and American Airlines, which has a major hub in Charlotte, the state's largest city. Banking and finance executives include the leaders of Bank of America, Citibank, TD Bank, PayPal, and others. Restaurateurs and retailers include leaders of Starbucks, Barnes & Noble and Levi Strauss; and technology executives joined in force, including the leaders of IBM, Apple, Intel, Google, Facebook, Yahoo, eBay, Twitter, YouTube, and many others.

    The new law "will make it far more challenging for businesses across the state to recruit and retain the nation's best and brightest workers and attract the most talented students from across the nation. It will also diminish the state's draw as a destination for tourism, new businesses, and economic activity," the letter said.

    Bank of America is the biggest of only a handful of North Carolina-based companies to sign on to the repeal letter. The country's largest electric company, Duke Energy Corp., doesn't take a position on social issues, spokesman Tom Williams said. Duke Energy's anti-discrimination policy includes sexual orientation and gender identity along with race, religion and ethnicity, he said.

    The state's Chamber of Commerce has not expressed a position on the law, which includes provisions some companies may appreciate, including a prohibition against local requirements that businesses to pay more than the state's minimum wage, currently $7.25 an hour, and an effective ban on employment discrimination lawsuits in state courts.

    When Indiana adopted a "religious freedom" law, that state's business chamber was among the most vocal opponents, joining an outcry that forced the legislature and governor to revise the law. Indianapolis' tourism group, Visit Indy, estimates a $60 million loss in net state revenue after 12 different convention groups cited the religious objections law as part of the reason they took events elsewhere.

    But the spokeswoman for the North Carolina chamber, Kate Catlin, would not describe any feedback from its members, or explain why the business lobby has not taken a position.

    Companies like the prospect of avoiding baseless lawsuits, but won't say so at the risk of being misconstrued as wanting to discriminate, said Hans Bader, a lawyer with the anti-regulatory Competitive Enterprise Institute, which is tracking a lawsuit challenging the North Carolina law.

    "A silent majority of North Carolina businesses may well approve of North Carolina's new law," Bader said. A company "is not going to say so publicly, since that could lead to angry demonstrators picketing or surrounding its headquarters or places of business."

    Corporations opposing the law may be expressing core corporate values, but they also need to be perceived favorably by customers, especially affluent gay ones, and to motivate highly educated, high-value employees who value diversity, said Peterson, who wrote a guidebook for global companies who want to expand LGBT inclusion.

    Associated Press
     
  9. ricks99

    ricks99 Well-Known Member

    I'm starting to think that the GOP-led General Assembly is taking a page out of the Trump handbook: Make the most outlandish, divisive law possible. Wait for the backlash, then repeal the most publicized aspect (in this case, the so-called "bathroom bill") but keep the rest (equally outrageous). Then pat yourself on the back as the public claims victory, even though the majority of bill remains. :(
     
    Sherry A. likes this.
  10. ricks99

    ricks99 Well-Known Member

  11. cynadon

    cynadon Well-Known Member

    I wonder if pay pal is closing down the office in India?
     
  12. Hught

    Hught Well-Known Member

    I don't know, however they said they are not going ahead in North Carolina because of HB2.

    The state was warned!
     
    Sherry A. likes this.
  13. barney726

    barney726 Well-Known Member

    seriously, did anyone actually read sherry a. post?
     
  14. Hught

    Hught Well-Known Member

    Yes, I did!

    You are right though, most people are to lazy to read up on this damaging bill, my guess is most of our Legislative body bothered to read this bill they passed that went far beyond "Bathroom use".
     
  15. poppin cork

    poppin cork Well-Known Member

    Nosir, couldn't care less about reading anything from the Chicago Tribune with the authors opinion and slant. Help yourself. There's better info posted on here without having to read an op ed she posted.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2016
  16. Yuri

    Yuri New Member

    Classic distraction politics. I did not know we had such a problem in bathrooms.
     
  17. Sherry A.

    Sherry A. Well-Known Member

    You may want to do your research as companies are pulling out of expanding in NC, whether you like it or not. The article clearly stated some of them and our economy cannot stand this. This is far beyond a restroom Bill.

    Sherry
     
  18. Rockyv58

    Rockyv58 Well-Known Member

    ;)
     

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