CSX in JoCo

Discussion in 'Discussion Group' started by jesse82nc, Jan 13, 2016.

  1. cynadon

    cynadon Well-Known Member

    P.S. even if you have to drive for it.
     
  2. Wayne Stollings

    Wayne Stollings Well-Known Member

    Ummmm it would not have been CSX with the problem but the waste storage company if the ground water was contaminated by coal ash residue. Just look at the "problem" trucking companies caused in NC by transporting coal ash to the Duke Energy storage sites. ;)

    http://www.npr.org/2015/03/18/39367...rgy-company-and-locals-struggle-over-solution
     
  3. DWK

    DWK Well-Known Member

    Your trolling always makes me chuckle. Thanks.
     
  4. DWK

    DWK Well-Known Member

    Right, Broadhurst Environmental had paid CSX for the use of the rail spur to dump the coal ash, but CSX never informed the towns that they were in fact, holding hazardous materials for Broadhurst. CSX is the problem since they fail to inform the public of the actual use of their so-called "rail hubs" to indefinitely store hazardous materials, and since the materials never go anywhere else, their "storage" areas actually become permanent dumping grounds in many rural towns. The issue I have with CSX is that they don't disclose these facts to the public, allow the whole operation to pass under the radar, and then just choose to lawyer up, so they can continue to get away with the bait and switch on an unsuspecting small town. If the same thing happens in Edgecomb county like it did in Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, and other Southern states, you'll know it by the increased waste permits that CSX starts applying for in the coming years. And you can bet that a lot of Duke's poisonous coal ash tonnage will end up in train cars heading out to Edgecomb County.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2016
  5. Wayne Stollings

    Wayne Stollings Well-Known Member

    It is the shipper not the carrier which would be responsible for the notification of hazardous material into and out of a facility. The Broadhurst landfill and a private spur is also the responsibility of the company using the spur to construct. In this case it was Central Virginia Properties according the Georgia DNR and Army Corps of Engineers. From the looks of the paperwork both the landfill and the company building the spur are owned by Republic Services, which is not unusual.

    A spur and an hub are different in use and ownership. Due to the length of the expected trains the CSX would have to also require some expansion to allow traffic to pass and for the empty cars to be cleaned prior to being moved out. The public was clearly aware of the issues because has to be meetings scheduled on the subject prior to the landfill permits being modified. It is always a issue with landfill operators because everyone needs a landfill but in someone else's backyard.

    According to this article, the landfill already accepts coal ash via truck and the spur was a new permit request to the Corps of Engineers to change to the train/truck combination.

    http://www.myajc.com/news/news/stat...orgia-landfills-expansion-plan-spurs-t/nqFtt/

    You are misinformed, CSX does not apply for waste permits for others.

    Only if there is a permitted landfill for that purpose.
     
    jesse82nc, Hught and cynadon like this.
  6. Harvey

    Harvey Well-Known Member

    By federal law, certain hazardous materials have to move by rail. In any case, CSX ships stuff. They don't make the hazardous waste. They take it to wherever they're paid to take it to.

    They also ship crappy WalMart lawn chairs from China in a very efficient way so you can pay low, low prices. It's called infrastructure and we need more of it and need to improve what we already have.
     
  7. DWK

    DWK Well-Known Member

    It's not all that important regarding the origins of the permit. The fact remains that if a permit paves the way for hazardous coal ash to be stored at a CSX, or any other intermodal operation, then it's realistic to assume that coal ash will exist where it hadn't been before. In Jesup, GA's case, the actual figure was close to 10,000 tons that had leaked out and contaminated their drinking water. Only time will tell what happens with CSX in Rocky Mount, but their public track record concerning coal ash storage is less than ideal. Thank you for your reply.
     
  8. cynadon

    cynadon Well-Known Member

    So basically, anybody involved in anything, is liable.
     
    poppin cork likes this.
  9. Wayne Stollings

    Wayne Stollings Well-Known Member

    The coal ash is not shipped to intermodal facilities. The Intermodal facilities are for the shipping containers which can be taken off the truck as a unit and placed on a rail car or ship.

    Which is also not related to intermodal shipments or CSX in general.

    I
    Which again has nothing to do with CSX. You do realize the rail spur has not been built yet right? The landfill has a permit for storage of coal ash but it is delivered by truck.

    http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/...e-coal-ash-going-into-jesup-landfill/85621002

    CSX does not store coal ash. It can transport it to private facilities such as landfills, but that is not the case in Jesup or anywhere else that I can find.
     
    cynadon and markfnc like this.
  10. jesse82nc

    jesse82nc Well-Known Member

    Come on now, we all know facts don't matter to certain people.
     
    cynadon likes this.
  11. DWK

    DWK Well-Known Member

    Here we go again with that old chestnut! Lol. What an interesting rhetorical device that's employed these days to effectively end a discussion without ever having to entertain the possibility that lower-income, rural towns sometimes get the short end of the stick, or sometimes get stuck with things they never asked for. Why in the world would regular, working class people, like the ones in Jesup, GA turn away CSX jobs that could benefit their town's economy unless there wasn't a serious problem? Why is that so hard to believe, and why is that so politically suspect? This whole issue has been well-documented for a while now in Georgia and elsewhere in the South, and if it hadn't been for a native, Jesup lawyer who investigated the situation, none of it would have ever come to light since most people there haven't the legal knowledge, time, or resources to pursue it. CSX and Broadhurst just never counted on a local boy who stayed in his small town, rather than seek his fame or fortune elsewhere after law school. And I think that is the definition of an increasingly rare, admirable man. Have a wonderful day!
     
  12. Wayne Stollings

    Wayne Stollings Well-Known Member

    What CSX jobs would there have been? The spur was to deliver train cars to the landfill, which would then be responsible for removing the contents, moving those contents to the landfill, cleaning up the cars, and returning them to CSX control when clean. There would have been no CSX jobs created to speak of. There would have been more jobs at the landfill, which has been in operation for over a decades but not CSX. It seems there is a lot of confusion over the participation of CSX in something that is ONLY being proposed at the present time. There are no cars being delivered because there is no spur to the landfill. The landfill does have coal ash being delivered by truck and has for some time according to the accounts, but that is it. The town wanted the landfill at the time of its inception, but it seems they have changed their minds about it as a result of the new permit applications.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2016
  13. Wayne Stollings

    Wayne Stollings Well-Known Member

  14. Harvey

    Harvey Well-Known Member

    About 10 years ago there was talk about moving a Raleigh freight yard from downtown into Johnston County near the county line. Local opposition formed and the railroad decided not to go forward. That was a freight yard, to store freight and build trains to head out on their next trip. The opposition stated they didn't want the gateway to Johnston County to be marred by a freight yard, but at the time there was nothing there (Hwy 70) but an automobile junkyard, a burned down strip club (Big Daddy's), and the WRAL antennas, so I am not real sure what 'view' the rail yard would ruin.

    Regardless, the CSX project is waaaaaaay different. Intermodal yards today and very clean, well run, and efficient. The direct CSX jobs might be few, but the surrounding support jobs would be huge. What DWK is talking about makes zero sense in this regard, because that project and the CSX thing in NC are apples and oranges.
     
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  15. Wayne Stollings

    Wayne Stollings Well-Known Member

    I contacted someone I know with GA EPD, which is the section of GA DEP that handles landfill permits. The public record information on the Republic landfill in relation to coal ash is fairly simple. The facility accepted CCR (coal ash) under their permit from 2006 until 2014 when the CCR portion was shut down. The landfill reported a leakage of leachate (rainwater that comes into the fill) in 2011, which is where the issue of ground water contamination probably originates. The recently proposed permit for CCR included the new spur line for more efficient transport, which is probably what reignited the issue on the web. Unless the CCR from Florida was shipped to some intermediate location prior to being trucked in, there was no CSX connection to the landfill or the concerns over contamination.
     
  16. DWK

    DWK Well-Known Member

    From your mouth to God's ear, I pray that you are right, and that leaking, unsecured coal ash waste storage had nothing to do with the contamination of rural drinking water supplies in the South, and that maybe the cause was something else unrelated to Duke Energy.
     
    Auxie likes this.
  17. Wayne Stollings

    Wayne Stollings Well-Known Member

    That is not what was said, but then again nothing provided seems to have actually been read. CSX had nothing to do with the coal ash, the landfill, nor the leakage. There was leakage from the landfill which may or may not have been related to the contamination issue. It is very probably the case that the leakage was the cause, but I have been involved with cases where an outside consultant has provided false data in order to make money form what was perceived as being deep pockets. I did not research the leakage just the claim that CSX was connected due to "storage" of hazardous material on idle trains in connection to the intermodal facility being proposed.
     
  18. BuzzMyMonkey

    BuzzMyMonkey Well-Known Member

    He's right, he's always right. Don't antagonize Wayne,, he doesn't like that.
    Lol
     
  19. DWK

    DWK Well-Known Member

    Well, I'm not trying to disrespect him, he seems to know much more than I do about the subject, and as we all know, it's tough to find accurate information online because everybody has their own interests and they tend to put a spin on things. That's just how it is out there when you're trying to determine what's true and what's false. I'm just trying to figure out what's going on with CSX and coal ash storage in the South. CSX's website openly advertises its services in toxic coal ash removal, where they say they load it onto "open hoppers and boxcars", but their website never says where the stuff ends up. It's not like CSX is trying to hide the fact that they're transporting hazardous coal ash materials and putting them somewhere else. it's all right there on their website. In fact, it looks like they're mainly advertising to "removal contractors" or "environmental specialists" who are hired by companies like Duke Energy and Georgia Power for coal ash removal, so we can assume that coal ash removal would be a boon for some of these environmental contractors - and I imagine a contract with a major power company like Duke Energy would result in some fairly lucrative cash. If anybody out there knows what happens to the thousands of tons of toxic (arsenic, mercury, lead) and radioactive coal ash waste after companies like CSX and contractors haul it away on those boxcars, I'd sure like to know.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2016
    BuzzMyMonkey likes this.
  20. Wayne Stollings

    Wayne Stollings Well-Known Member

    The disposal depends upon the state. The EPA promulgated the final rules for CCR disposal, which was published in the CFR in 2015 and had an effective date of early this year, I believe. This is a minimum requirement as the states can make more stringent rules if they desire, but the US EPA must approve each state's plan. I deal mainly with air monitoring for MSW landfills with a few Construction and Debris mixture fills so I am not as familiar with the new CCR regulations as I am with the more common MSW fills.

    https://www.epa.gov/coalash/coal-ash-rule

    I understand many of the power generation companies which previously stored the CCR are going toward the more modern lined "dry tomb" landfills. This is what Duke Energy is trying to do with the containment ponds it operates and in the case of older unlined landfills they are also removing the CCR to newer lined fills. For long distance transport of large quantities of CCR the train is going to be the preference due to the lower cost and less exposure for potential accidents since it takes many more truck trips to equal one rail car. CSX is not in the business of storing the CCR, just transporting it if necessary. The Jesup landfill taking CCR from Florida would be expected since Florida has water table issues that make landfills more of an issue especially one with special waste such as CCR.

    A couple of articles on the Duke energy landfill proposals:

    http://www.roanoke.com/news/local/d...cle_0b2a1826-c442-11e3-938a-0017a43b2370.html

    http://www.bizjournals.com/charlott...rgy-plans-lined-landfill-for-coal-ash-in.html
     

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