What's your point? It covers the elementary, middle school and Westview elementary. If you've been following the conversation at all you'd know the reason: If it encompassed everything that is probably identified with Cleveland it would immediately become one of the largest cities/towns in NC. Does that sound right to you? So either you make it modest or you go all in.
Agreed. I made the map for discussion/visualization purposes only. By no means did I intend to send it to the legislature any time soon.
I would agree that the 40/42 commercial base is crucial to be included in the incorporation as well as a couple of the schools. But I don't really get much of a say, I'm outside just about any map I have seen to date. Although in a few, not by much.
I think a possible boundary would be Mclemore fire district. That's where the tax dollars for the fire dept come from now.
No thanks, we already have county water and hydrants in our neighborhood. And there is a Wake County Sheriff and a JoCo Sheriff that lives here, so we have plenty of protection. Fire and EMS are close enough already. We also have street lights. So what would anyone offer? Garbage? I am perfectly content to drive a few miles down to Barber Mill and pay $100 a year to take out my trash at my own convenience right now (about every 2 weeks or whenever it starts to smell). I don't want to have to remember to put out my trash every Wednesday morning or something. If I knew there was some benefit and there wouldn't be more restrictions placed on my house, I would be for it.
THE major benefit would be the ability to provide planning and zoning guidance followed closely by the ability to adopt existing and new streets onto town maintenance and by doing so collect Powell Bill funds that go right past us now. We would be able to set construction standards for new road construction that would accommodate new growth. We would be eligible for additional funding such as Small town Main Street, Federal Community Development Block Grant, and money like the $30K dollars already authorized by the state legislature for us (see post #1 for full story). A new incorporation has to nominally provide a minimum of 4 municipal services and enforce building code. Contracting with an existing provider is allowed, meaning we technically wouldn't have to "Provide" anything we didn't want to or have to. That's just the way the laws are written. So yes we would basically be creating a middle man situation if we contracted with the county for water, sewer and code enforcement If we provide trash service and fire or police that should satisfy the requirements to collect state and county tax revenue shares. The minimum property tax we would be required to collect would be 5 cents per $100 of property valuation. In my example that would be around 90 dollars on a $180k house. I would support that level of taxation and probably more IF I knew all of that money stayed in Cleveland. Ask yourself how much of the tax money we already generate is being returned to our community? We pay tax on all sorts of things like gas, booze, hotels, groceries, etc. that we are not receiving our percentage of. As for additional restrictions, the existing restrictions and covenants should not be affected. The only new restrictions would come from town ordinances that would have to be voted on by elected officials.
"The only new restrictions would come from town ordinances that would have to be voted on by elected officials." QUOTE Trust me, it's the "elected officials" that create those "new restrictions" that you DON'T want! As I have mentioned in a post above, I have previously lived in a place where there were no restrictions, only to see new boards and ordinances suddenly come into play under the questionable guise of "improvements". This new board ruined my old neighborhood and there was not a darn thing homeowners could do. Our hands were completely tied in the matter. (By the way, ironically, this was a place whose newly arrived, residents regularly touted ideas of "individual rights and freedoms".....blah, blah, blah.....but of course, the irony of the situation was completely lost on them.) In fact, false, idealistic, rhetoric aside, most of the changes put into place there were for one reason only: for somebody to make money. In Cleveland, we currently get most of the services that we need without relying on "elected officials". I honestly don't understand why we Americans today insist on "regulating" and "restricting" everything to our detriment. It seems to be a common theme these days and the antithesis of everything that we supposedly stand for. No thanks.
Some people may have a bit more than your example and only rely on the fire department, which they already support more to than your example. Like DWK said, we got what we need. I'll repeat again, The only thing you are trying to achieve is impeding growth without dictating how. Creekwater NC aint going to design, build, nor maintain roads. They's a lot of developments around here I disagree with. However, I don't think its any of my business to try and change the rules
In the short term you're probably right. What about in 30 years though? Yes right now everybody may have everything they need but whats this area going to look like if the toll road ever gets built and Interstate 42 runs through the cheapest real estate within 50 miles of RTP? It's definitely a gamble and a risk. If some of you folks can remember back to what Cary or Fuquay (they design , build and maintain roads) looked like in 1979 what would have happened if that was an un-incorporated area? I lived in Morrisville before I moved out to Cleveland School, I cut 20 minutes off my commute to RTP by adding 30 miles to it, traffic was so bad there because they didn't or couldn't improve the roads. I don't understand why you feel like it's not your business to have a say about the rules, you live here. You have as much say as anyone. I'm really paranoid about that also. It doesn't mean it's certain to happen. Moreover, its better than some other majority voting for us to be annexed into Clayton, Garner or Benson at the next opportunity. I feel we would have a much better chance forging our own way. Thanks for putting up with me Y'all, in case you can't tell it's something I'm pretty passionate about! I appreciate that this discussion hasn't turned into a bar fight. I know some of you are as sensitive to this as I am.
Cranky, if you can see the future so well, head east about 10 miles on I40 to start your utopia. Cleveland is about full. I still don't comprehend middle manning those already here.
Cranky Thanks for your input. I agree it has been an unusually civil discussion. The area will only continue to grow and you have to plan for that. This is not something the County will do very well in my opinion. A local gov't would also be able to build partnerships with state and regional agencies (NCDOT, CAMPO, etc.) to ensure our needs are met.
You're equating incorporation to an HOA, which is not entirely off base so I suppose I can kind of see your point. However, I don't think any local gov't is going to bring that level of control, but could eventually develop a minimum set of building codes for safety and uniformity sake (things like that). Most of these codes or ordinances are not much more restrictive than what the County already has. Did you know you need a permit to burn things in your back yard? Even out in the County where we are? It's not a County rule, but it's a good rule. Even if the jack-hole in my neighborhood decides to do it anyway. It's especially great because he burns trash, yard debris, and dog poop (yep, he runs a doggy-doo service) at about 6:30 pm right when the cooler air settles in and traps the smoke near the ground. Nothing says welcome home more than burning dog poop! Some municipalities strengthen these sorts of rules due to their population density - a density we are quickly starting to see for ourselves out in Cleveland School. No one likes an HOA until their neighbor paints their house Pepto Pink or burns a big pile of dog crap two weeks before yours goes on the market.
Thank you Harvey for the last post. I agree, fires in the back yard may concern me. Burning dog poo next door certainly does. But if you want to paint your house titty pink, go for it. What's next? House color, shutters, front door, hood up changing the battery. I don't expect this anytime soon, but? I got a couple of friends who are told by the original land owner to shut the garage doors cause it don't look nice to potential customers. Some folks get a piece of rope and think they're a cowboy. Imagine government with other peoples money$
I'm taking it that you have never lived in a town that in ten years time went from a place where there were absolutely no restrictions, to so many of them, that you could practically wallpaper your house with the regulation book. From my experience, this usually happens whenever a place gets popular, property values begin to rise, and it's "put on the map". And like I have mentioned before, if a place is popular - and the license plates coming from every state in the nation to our area is definite proof of that - then it will be the market that dictates the value of your property, and not anything else such as "incorporation", or even the limited efforts of an HOA, who normally like to take credit for such things. In ten years time, even without incorporation, most Cleveland homeowners, especially those who have been here awhile, will be sitting pretty, even if the house next door is painted any shade of pink. (Lol)
Agenda Item for the County Commissioner Meeting at 10am on September 5th. 5. Cleveland Community Representatives – Allocation from the N.C. General Assembly Representatives from the Cleveland Community would like to update the Board regarding a $30,000 allocation received from the North Carolina General Assembly.
