Grandmother and child killed during police chase

I agree mostly, except for charges and firing. He accidentally killed two people, one a little girl. That's about all the punishment one man needs in his life. Especially one who lays his life on the line every day for us.

 

Having a hard time with this one.....

I would like to see what everyone's individual response would be if it were their grandmother that was killed and their 5th grade daughter that was killed. If you say the same, then you are not being honest. You would be COMPLETLY OUTRAGED!

I pull out in a variety of different interections in Clayton and it is often hard to judge how fast people are going and often people are going way to fast and they are up on my tail because they actually speed up when someone comes out rather than have the decency to actually let someone in. Everyone is in a hurry to get no where. I get off track....I would presume that this person did not see police lights, but we'll never find that out.

The costs far outweigh the risks in catching eluding cars and speeders. Three INNOCENT BYSTANDERS die every week in the USA due to police cars traveling at dangerous speeds to stop speeders and low lifes who ultimately probably would be caught because they are not that smart anyways. Cops can use alternative methods and put their heads together. If the officer was going a little slower, he could of avoided the crash, or at least it would have been potentially less impactful. If going slower, reduces the ability to catch them, so be it - and if think everyone would start outracing the cops, then I think that we are sorely mistaken. 99% of people do not try to outrun cops.

I am sorry, this is an avoidable tradgedy - it is not the troopers fault, but rather, outdated and unsafe procedures that need to be modified around this country.

 

:iagree:

 

The only problem I have with this is the assumption that this was a prolonged chase. There is no indication that the speeder was running or would have run. The trooper used his own judgement to run his cruiser up to 120 mph to close the distance more quickly and I'd respectfully disagree that 120 mph over 1 mile is safer than 90 over three miles. Chargers are not super cars and their brakes and suspension are really not designed for prolonged high speed. If this had been the Wake County Z06 Corvette this probably would have been a different story. Chargers are family cars with a V8, period. Braking at that speed in that car would take a few hundred feet to stop. If he had been running about 90 he would have been able to likely maintain greater control over the car. He's really lucky himself to be alive.

I agree that the trooper shouldn't really be fired because apparently the highway patrol doesn't even have a policy to dictate what a trooper should do. Yes, the citizen pulled out but there is little room for error in such a situation. You look left, you look right and proceed without expecting that 4000 pound car to be bearing down on you from the left after those few seconds elapsed. The trooper's punishment will be second guessing himself for a lifetime and the heavy hearts this girl's parents will feel having lost their only child.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AM3nahcykCY

Imagine yourself turning left in front of that, at a normal and casual rate. Watch the video a few times, and try to decide exactly when you can tell the car is traveling at > 60 MPH.

 

"He" didn't kill anyone. She was at fault so she killed herself and an 11 year old. You guys obviously don't know any SHP. The yield statute doesn't pertain to speed. She pulled out in front of the SHP. The end.




What's next? The Amtrak engineer "killed" someone because a person drove onto the tracks?

 

:iagree: I am not sure what microcosm it seems the majority of you live in but in the world of reality this trooper is INNOCENT. He was doing was he was sworn to do to protect the citizens of this state! The training that these men and women are above national standards! They are trained to drive in any weather condition as well as in high speed chases. Everyday they put their lives on the line for the likes of you selfish idiots out there that negate to realize just how dangerous and underpaid a job this is much like the military all for what... to protect the good and the bad no matter what car you drive, your education, the size house you live in and obviously common sense or lack of it. The facts are the lady was in the WRONG! She turned across oncoming traffic! She had a car full of children and had she been seconds earlier the person the trooper was pursuing could have easily been the one to have hit her car and quite possibly killed all of the occupants! Or if not them... another family, a child on a bike or a mother crossing the road with her child in a stroller. Do I need to go on? Have any of you even seen or heard about the trooper that not only was doing his job and putting his own life on the line how he is recovering? No, because salacious headlines grab the attention easier then the facts. I rarely log onto this website because of the whacked out views of the nut jobs that are apparently my neighbors (and sharing the road with me) but felt a strong sense to correct the views you have. He tried to avoid this lady and by doing so slammed his own car into a tree! Siren or not this lady should have seen the blinking blue and white lights headed straight at her!!!!!! For those of you that have been at this intersection I think you will see the clear line of sight that she had regardless the speed of this trooper. A little common sense goes a looooooooooooooong way! All we need is a little patience! The next time that you or your loved one are hurt or are on the side of the road and it takes mere seconds for help to get there, thank a police officer! The next time you yourself are pulled over for driving to fast, making a rolling stop, squeezing into traffic onto 42 and almost causing an accident or flying thru a bleeding red light thank a police officer! The next time your child comes home with literature on not doing drugs, wearing a helmet and respect for law enforcement no matter how shallow your way of thinking is, thank a police officer! The next time someone flies past you and your first thought is where is a police officer when you need one, thank a police officer. The next time you see a large drug bust or another selfish drunk driver arrested, thank a police officer. Also know that with the budget cuts across the state manpower and hours are down so these men and women are doing the best they can with the resources they have been given with the BEST training out there! Not sure where you live but it must be at the intersection of ignorance and make believe! :banghead:

 

Thanks for the correction on the fps I did indeed leave off one of the 60 divisions which also changes the reaction time from .01 to .62 which is still alot quicker reaction time than the normal driver on the raods has to think and react.

As to did she have time to see him? without being at that intersection and and in her postion I can't honestly say, not to mention that as she also had 3 kids in the car she was probably somewhat distracted by them and may not have been paying enough attention to notice the trooper.

 

By now reading that this intersection was clearly visible to all involved, it solidifies my opinion that the trooper should have slowed down. He made an assumption that the woman would see him. Do ambulance drivers blast though redlights without assuming that another driver will pull out in front of them? No. The basic principle at play here is that the trooper was traveling too fast to maintain control over his car. Its about like a K-9 cop releasing his dog off the leash on a suspect in a community park with innocent bystanders. If the dog mistakes a child for the intended target, then the cop was attempting to do his job but exercised poor judgement. In this case, his cruiser was "off the leash." He had no control over that car once he pushed it that hard. If he had just slowed down to a reasonable speed going through a crossover and then accelerated (these cars accelerate pretty fast), he would have performed his job by stopping the intended speeder. Instead, he total his car, lost the speeder, killed two people and now has to live with it. But, afterall, he is human. I really don't want to seem to villianize him but rather feel disappointed in the HP placing blamed solely on the deceased when the trooper was driving his vehicle at a speed in which he had no possible way of maintaining control of it with variable factors like a citizen pulling into his path which he was covering very quickly as the video of the Mustang GT demonstrates.

 

I do the same thing. I've been trying to teach my daughter the same thing.

Sherry

 

As you and others have also stated funeral processions as well.

I have seen ambulances get stuck behind a person who doesn't pull over and have wondered if the person in the ambulance lived.

I always pull over to allow emergency vehicles to get through and funeral processions. I also slow down when I hear a siren as I am unsure where it is coming from and don't want to block any area for whomever is behind the wheel of an emergency vehicle.

Sherry

 

Naturally, I don't pull over on the shoulder of a multi-lane highway for emergency vehicles but I do move over to the far right as required. As for intersections, I try to play it safe and glance both ways before going through an intersection. Doesn't hurt to assume some absent-minded person will blow through the light or stop sign. I came very close to being T-boned one time at a stoplight. For some reason that I can't explain, I stopped for a green light and my wife asked why. Almost instantly a big sedan went through the light. If I hadn't stop, they would have creamed me.

 

Without placing blame on the officer, still it seems reasonable to suggest the SHP should review their standard procedures.

 

They won't

 

He had the freakin green light, slowed down to 95 and had his blue lights on. Why is this so hard for some to understand?

To hear some of you tell it, he blasted through a busy intersection, with a red light, at 150mph.

This investigation will be for show only. I can promise you there will be some form letter distributed to the media concerning safety standards but ask any SHP about this incident and he/she will tell you the procedures were followed correctly.

 

Actually, he managed to slow down to 95 mph at the point of impact. He slammed on the brakes at 120 mph when the woman began pulling out. His brakes were overwhelmed and he could only manage to scrub off 25 mph. On a car like that there is not enough rotor surface area and caliper to drop speed quick enough in a panic stop. He was overdriving the car's capabilities. Who drives their car passed the point of controllability and does that constitute recklessness? A 350-horsepower Hemi Charger have plenty of capability in the power department to close a gap quickly with a less car like a old V6 Buick Skylark. My point is he could have likely waited a few seconds rather than risk public safety at a crossover.

I'm done with this subject, though. I'm sorry, Cleanup, that my opinion differs from yours but that doesn't necessarily make you right or me for that matter. I understand the circumstances perfectly, but disagree with your point of view.

 

It's cool Jester and I'm not trying to single you out. I appreciate your response and after re-reading mine I can see how it seemed little abrasive.

As I have said on here already, cops have to speed in order to catch those breaking the law. Shorter chase times = reduced chances of the speeder hurting someone else. This was an unfortunate set of circumstances but everything was followed according to the SHP guidelines. The bottom line here is the lady turned in front of him. SHP has to assume when their lights are on that everyone will either get out of the way, slow down or stop. Those lights are not for decoration.

I imagine had this SHP been able to run down the speeder thus preventing the speeder from running through a stop sign and killing someone, everyone would have applauded the SHP for catching him.

As soon as we restrict how fast SHP can chase a criminal they will never catch a soul as the criminals will exceed that speed to get away.

 

It appears to me that the fault lies with the SPEEDER. We would all be in danger if not for SHP. They risk their lives every day to make our highways safe. This was truly a tragic accident and I'm sure the family is hurting beyond belief. BUT, lets not make the situation worse by casting blame on the very ones who keep us safe. JMHO

 

No harm done. I know its not me personally you have a difference with but my opinion and truthfully, I do not exactly blame the trooper for doing his job. My thing is just how he handled the individual situation. While it is true that you can't be so quick to persecute those who are out there serving us, you do have to hold them accountable for their actions while wearing the badge. If they allow their emotions to negatively influence their judgement, then they have to be held somewhat responsible for their actions. Whether or not he is judged in any way at fault, depends on the Highway Patrol's own findings. However, I think an independent investigation is in order to assure that the trooper conducted himself appropriately.

I think its the media's job to report the story. In fact, I haven't really seen in derogatory remarks made by the media on the story. Public servants and the agencies they represent should have their credibility challenged in such situations to prove to the public that their integrity is intact and that they are conducting their jobs as the public expects.

 

I just found this thread and have seen merits in both sides of the argument. Cleanup Hitter seems certain that the grandmother had a red light, but the first article says she had a green light. I don't know how this intersection is laid out, but I can't imagine both of them having a green light or not. Are there any more articles that show that she had a red light? If she had a green light, then the HP had a red and was probably slowing, hence the slowdown to 95. I also believe that the true poor judgment here was in trying to do a U-turn and catch a speeder. He should have radioed someone ahead already in the lane as the Skylark and got him that way. I believe the driver of the Skylark probably didn't even know he was about to be pulled.