Should Cleveland become a town?

Ran across this story about people wondering what to do about the increased growth in Cleveland. What do you think?

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/community/garner-cleveland-record/article25592230.html

 

It comes up here on a somewhat regular basis. Here's a whole thread about it.

I think the main argument for incorporation was to do it before Clayton or Garner annexed us. With the changes in annexation laws a few years ago, that may no longer be an issue. So, is it worth incorporation to set our own zoning/planning regulations? Would it be too costly to provide the services a municipality has to provide (police, fire, sewer/water, trash, etc)?

 

If I remember right, from the last time this was discussed (there is a thread or two on it) they will have to choose a name other than Cleveland because the postal service says there already is a Cleveland NC.

 

Yep, in Rowan County. I believe Cleveland Springs was the proposed name once that was discovered. I think the proposed name is the least of the barriers, though.

 

I remember in one of the threads that we were able to vote on a group of names. I remember voting for Cleveland Grove. Considering our area is named for Grover Cleveland. I remember people posting that there is no grove, but than again there is no spring either

I also remember going to a meeting about incorporating and we had a person from the USPS. Even if we had incorporated there would be a chance we would not get a post office.

IMHO I still think we should incorporate, before we get taken over or divided up by Clayton, Garner, Smithfield or Benson. Regardless if we get taken over by another town or incorporate, taxes will go up. I would rather keep the money closer to us than to go to a downtown many many miles away

 

As one of the voices of the effort a few years ago, you've made the point exactly as I believed it, Rocky. It would be far better for us to make decisions on our own, in our best interests by incorporating than by being a small fish in a Garner or Clayton pond, whose taxes are already established which we'll pay, for services which will eventually show up.

I get that people moved out here to escape the city, taxes, etc. Take a look around the 40-42 intersection weekdays in the morning and afternoon and tell me that the traffic situation isn't begging for a solution. Look at the growth, which is controlled by the county, with little regard for what happens here. Notice the latest proposal from JoCo services for using the dumps...they want to increase the rates drastically. If you don;t want to pay that, you pay for commercial service. What's that run? 250-300 bucks a year. that's a self imposed trash tax that those people who refuse the idea of paying taxes pay themselves. The number of deputies around here hasn't kept up with the crime. That's not the LEOs fault, as they're doing all they can. It's a reflection of growth in population. Consider how much coin is spent at the ABC store off 42. The municipalities in the county receive a portion of those profits from the ABC operations. We 4042'ers are contributing to Archer Lodge, Selma, Wilson's Mills, Smithfield, and Clayton. I'd rather some fo that rightfully stay here.

Provision of municipal services, like a faster police response..trash collection..water management..development control..input into traffic and solutions..OUR voice, OUR control..

I'm still for incorporation, as are many of the business persons with whom I spoke.

 

As someone who was in Archer Lodge before it became incorporated and is continuing to live there now I will say for everyone to be prepared for a very long, very slow process.

After being a town for 6 years now there is no noticeable difference other than the town hall and some street lights and signs. JoCo Sheriffs Office still provides law enforcement services, and with no greater resources than they were using before (i.e, there is no county car dedicated to AL or an extra car in rotation to assist the car for the area.) There is no post office (although the postal service said we probably wouldn't get one anyway) and all addresses are still either Clayton or Wendell.

That is not to say that the town doesn't have good ideas or intentions, but as with any government do not expect anything to happen fast, or as intended. Maybe things will be better (faster?) in the Cleveland area.

Duane

 

Duane, there's an old saying that your words brought to mind. "If you want it bad, you get it bad." And I'm willing to take measured, deliberate steps towards self determination. None of us associated with the previous effort began with the thought that we'd be done in x years, providing z services. I do believe we all realize that the steps to achieve this are many, and not easily performed. It seems to me that if AL has contracted with the JCSD for police support, the leaders of AL could have spelled out their requirements for police support and JCSD would have been legally bound to provide that. If the matter wasn't given its deliberate full thought process, then the leadership of AL who brought this in appeared to be short sighted.
The Postal issue, however is a federal one, which may coexist with other municipal challenges. At the end of the most previous campaign for this, I began to feel as if people heard the 'i' word, and immediately responded without thought, "moved here to escape taxes." And I understand that, except that municipal services are a zero sum game. For every dollar one pays, he should rightfully expect a dollars worth of municipal service. I felt that quite a few folks were tripping over rodent fecal droppings.

 

I think it's inevitable we get sucked up by Fuquay or Garner. I suppose anything on the east side of I40 would likely go to Clayton, but the 40/42-42/50 area would almost certainly be Garner, over to Willow Spring. Either way, incorporation isn't necessary for easing traffic at the Tourist Trap exit 312 interchange, as 540 will connect to the 70 bypass via TenTen road 2 miles north of 42 on 50. 50 to 540, Cleveland Rd to 50 to 540........if you're on the west side of 40, there;s your answer. Trash? Yeah, trash is high, $240-ish a year, but what does municipal trash come with? City codes? God forbid HOAs? All those great city things?

Crime? What crime? I guess you guys do have a lot of meth-heads on the east side of 40, but to say there is a "crime problem" in this area is pretty hilarious. You should go to Durham more often

 

Thy need to burn Durham down and start again anyway. LOL

 

There are HOAs out here now. And for some of us, building codes aren't always a bad thing. Right now, a person could have a 5000 sq foot home built and enjoy it, long enough for someone to buy the adjoining lot and placing a decrepit ramshackle place with a couple of cars and engines in plain view. When we first moved in, behind us was nothing other than kudzu and clay hills, a little ambling creek with a beaver family. A developer came in and paid for water and sewage so they could build homes with smaller footprints and now there are a couple of hundred homes out back. Further development and growth is a given. More population will bring potential, if not actual, criminal opportunity. This is never going to be the bucolic village of yesteryear, no matter how much that is desired. The only chance we have now is to take control of our own destiny. The municipal offerings are up to us to choose...police protection, sidewalks, sanitation - both sewage and refuse, provision of services - cablevision franchising, transportation -buses, vans...

I grant that at some point, all of us have wanted to get away from the city. That's more and more unlikely to be able to achieve. And our choice is to be annexed with no voice in our future, or grab the bull by the horns and choose for oursleves. Delaying our choice to incorporate is merely inviting annexation by others.

 

So, you want to stop everything around you?

 

I agree with the annoyance of neighbors parking 8 non-running vehicles in the back yard, and the one in 50 yard that is eroded and full of weeds making an eyesore. When I start longing for an HOA, I temper my enthusiasm by thinking about 1) fees, and 2) the typicaly kind of people who run for these offices and get elected are the neighborhood busybodies who love to play favorites. No thanks.....part of the reason I bought a home down here, and not NRal or Cary

 

I don't think Garner wants to annex the Cleveland area. It is not in their ETJ. Now I don't know about Clayton's interests?

 

Yes, it needs to be incorporated. For no other reason than planning/zoning control. The tax base is built in, which is not something Archer's Lodge has given the lack of commercial development. If Cleveland incorporated, there would be an immediate and substantial budget to work with that would most likely afford the ability to hire staff in a couple of short years. If I had to guess the big box stores and other commercial interests would likely support the effort as well. I was also part of the voices of the effort some years ago. Unfortunately, there is no champion for the cause and it never went anywhere. There is plenty of support, just no champion(s).

 

Here's Garner's ETJ, you can see it's pretty far north from 40/42. On 40, it ends at the White Oak Road bridge.


Clayton is much closer.

 

Ultimately, I would think that Cleveland would want to include most or all of the shaded area:

 

It would include a lot more than that Jesse. The fire dept and the old school all the way to Elizabeth church , I would think.

 

if I'm not mistaken, the original proposal was a 5 mile radius from D.R. Wells store. That's large. They's farms in that area bigger than most subdivisions.

 

5 mile radius puts you almost within Clayton's city limits, let alone their ETJ.