Should Cleveland become a town?

Being born and raised in NC, not sure how I fall into the "damn Yankees' profile.

 

Sure It does, Just because I didn't graduate from the old Cleveland School, I'm from somewhere else and I only own an acre of land doen't make any less of a member of this community than you.

 

You asked a question and I answered. Being here 14 years doesn't qualify anyone or anything "an old timer" JMO

 

Too bad, but the Yankees have invaded, again, much like the Europeans who invaded the Native lands.

 

It's been a while since anyone talked about either incorporation or annexation in the area, and I thought it would be interesting to 1) take a look at the forum's thoughts on incorporation from 10 years ago, and 2) look at what Garner and Clayton have annexed since we last looked at it. Spoiler: Garner is a LOT closer to the area than they used to be.

I did a poor job of pasting together Wake and Johnston's GIS maps, but you get the idea:

Garner's town limits are shown in red. In Joco, the purple area is Clayton's ETJ, and the slightly darker shades are the existing town limits. The yellow properties are farmland. I don't know why Johnston's GIS does that.

Yes, the corner of NC 50 and Cleveland School Rd is now Garner town limits. That's less than a mile from the county line and only 2 miles from exit 312. Clayton has annexed some stuff in the past 10 years, but it looks like their ETJ hasn't really changed.

Would Garner eventually annex properties in Johnston County? There's no such thing as forced annexation now. Towns can only annex properties that specifically request it. Since JoCo provides water in the "40/42" area, I imagine someone would only want their JoCo land annexed if sewer were needed (builders and land developers, mostly). JoCo doesn't provide sewer in this part of the county, do they? Since Garner is already going to run water/sewer past NC-540, they may be able to run the lines further to some JoCo properties easier than JoCo could. I don't know if there is any sort of agreement between Garner and JoCo, or if one would even be needed.

From what I've read today, the ETJ is not necessarily the limit of where a town can annex. They can annex outside of their ETJ, but the ETJ is where the town can control zoning. So if Garner eventually came across the county line and started annexing in the area (but 40/42 wasn't part of their ETJ), would everyone be OK with that? Would the area stay outside of their ETJ?

If the area were to incorporate however, we could establish an ETJ and have more control over zoning requests in the area. Again, nobody's taxes would go up directly, because there's no forced annexation. Most of the annexation would be newly developed land/buildings. But of course the downside is that existing residents would be subject to the zoning rules of a government they can't vote for. Were most of the previous concerns about incorporation because of being taxed? If that's no longer an issue, would people be more open to it now?

Of course, if there's no chance of this area ending up in Garner's or Clayton's ETJ, no action is needed and zoning control stays with JoCo in Smithfield. Is that the best option?

I just happened to see Garner's current town limits and had some random thoughts...

 

In North Carolina, the maximum distance a municipality can extend its extraterritorial jurisdiction (ETJ) beyond its corporate limits is determined by population. Cities with fewer than 10,000 residents can extend their ETJ up to one mile, while cities with 10,000 to 25,000 residents can extend it up to two miles, and cities with over 25,000 residents can extend it up to three miles. Clayton is over 30,000 now.

Clayton has been working lately to expand their ETJ from 2 miles to 3 miles. Today it is 2 miles. Their recent Gateway 42 plan showed the new proposed ETJ line on the western edge, they plan to line it up with Swift Creek in most cases.



https://www.townofclaytonnc.org/Doc.../20240308_Gateway-42_Final-Deliverable?bidId=
Page 16 - " However, with the escalating populace, as documented by the 2020 census, the Town of Clayton surpassed a threshold that allowed for the expansion the Town’s extraterritorial jurisdiction."

 

I moved out here 25 years ago on Memorial day weekend. I remember shortly after moving out here, on this website (when it was called 4042.com) there was talk about us becoming our own town like Archers Lodge. So we could get our own Post office. This website even posted names for what our town should be called. Suggestions we all gave. (My suggestion then as it is now Cleveland Grove). There was even a "town hall" kind of meeting and even had a representative from USPS. I vaguely remember the Postal employee saying even if we incorporated, we wouldn't get a post office. Again that was 25 years ago. Things may of changed due to our population explosion out here. I feel with our tax base growing out here, we are rip for the picking and taking over by Garner, Clayton and Smithfield. Maybe it is time for us to incorporate into our own community. I know nay sayers will belly ache about higher taxes, but if we become incorporated into another town our tax base will surely go out but the services will still be far from where we are. But if we incorporate into our own town and the tax base goes up but at least the money stays here were we need the services.

Also I remember when the people who own the farm on the corner of Matthews Road and Polenta Road wanted to do donate their land to become a park (before it became just another development). There were meetings over at Cleveland High school. I heard people (who own some of these McMansions) bellyaching about paying more in property taxes for "just a park" and that they take their kids over to Garner to use their parks. Hate to tell you this folks, but the people in Garner have to pay a bit more in their property taxes for their parks and they sure as heck don't want "freeloaders" like you using "their" parks. (Sorry let me get off my soap box)

Let me get off my soap box, but i still feel we need to incorporate into our own town by now and can even have a community park. Thanks for reading and don't judge my ramblings too hard.

 

I had not seen that proposed map of Clayton's expanded ETJ. That's certainly a lot closer than it is now (from the JoCo GIS map I posted).

I agree about the parks. We leech off the Wake/Garner tax base by using their parks. Especially now with the new Beech Bluff Park on 42.

I thought the discussion might be a little different now since Garner/Clayton cannot annex properties against the owner's wishes. The most likely annexation would be new developments that want municipal services. With that in mind, would people be more open to Garner or Clayton controlling zoning approvals in the area (assuming the ETJ was expanded)? Or would nobody care, since it doesn't affect their own property?

I've been in the area (and on this forum) about the same amount of time as you. I see the posts only go back to about 2005. I do seem to remember that there was a server crash around that time and the forum was completely reset. I still think of this as 4042.com. That domain is now available for purchase.

 

Its a little sad to read thru the old comments, then click on poster a see they hadnt been on here since 2017 (for example)

 

Yeah, this forum died about the time that Facebook really picked up. I prefer the forum format, though. Completely separate from the rest of your identity.

 

i like this too. nextdoor is 1 question with 35 of the same or similar answers. no one looking at previous comments. the fb one i just dont get.

 

I've been thinking about the incorporation subject quite a bit lately and that it might be a good idea.
I've been here since 2008, so not as long as some. But you see the flippant approvals from the county commissioners for almost any project because they don't worry about what happens out here. If I recall correctly one of the commissioners a few years back even said something like, perhaps y'all need to get a mayor.
I chatted with someone involved with the Archer Lodge incorporation and they said to incorporate you need to offer three services: they added a Rec Department, a town hall and I forget the other. Not sure if that still applies.
So we would see a tax increase, but minimal and like previously mentioned it would stay local. And perhaps we could slow the building and have an actual growth plan instead of piling everything at the intersection of Cleveland Road and Matthews Road/McLemore Road.

 

I think the other service they offer is Police. Common services are public safety (police and fire), public works (streets, utilities, waste disposal), and recreation (parks, libraries, and community events).

https://www.sog.unc.edu/sites/default/files/additional_files/incorporation07.pdf