The contradiction is that the only thing constant is change. I am not trying to get all philosophical, but if folks don't want change and wan to keep it the way it is then they would have just as much of a problem with all of the Sheetz, new Food Lions, etc. So why wouldn't a few parks, some squad cars, etc. be any different?
Well septic tanks fail at some point and many houses in the area may be getting to that point. Septic tanks can also leach into ground water / wells. My septic tank is about 20 years old and that is the average lifespan from what I've read. A well maintained one can last much longer. Regardless, I'd rather pay taxes and have the opportunity to tie into sewer than have to put in a new tank at some point. Sewer and sewer treatment is cleaner and better for environment. I am not certain on this, but I don't think new subdivisions in JoCo are allowed to have septic (there is probably a reason for that). Yes, Fire good. They do a great job and could use more funding.
Same concept as public education. You pay for it whether or not you have kids in the system. My reason why I think this is a good thing: Because I don't want to live in a world with dumb kids. I pay my share. Parks and Rec can have the same concept applied. You license capacity from the County. Does Clayton have a reservoir? No new infrastructure immediately, but over time you build it out and connect more and more. Which may mean a couple of things: 1) proof this area needs more police protection, or 2) you are constantly in trouble with the law - just kidding My retirement is in 401k, IRA's, stuff like that. Can I demand the economy stay strong right up until I die so my accounts grow? No, I can't. No more than the land owner can count on the price per acre staying strong, or the planning board allowing him to subdivide. That is their investment and it carries as much risk as anyone else. Do they get to cash out, subdivide, develop irresponsibly (have you seen some of the shoddy subdivision built around here) until the area is a congested mess? I guess so, but couldn't we have a planning board that could help steer these continued developments in a way that is best for the entire community?
"You license capacity from the County. Does Clayton have a reservoir? No new infrastructure immediately, but over time you build it out and connect more and more." So, even though the county handles it, you want to middleman it, and make it better.
Maybe our new town, Creek Water, could be like some other local towns and buy bulk electricity and redistribute it. That would be brilliant since it's worked out so well for their customers.
I have lived in places that were highly restrictive, in terms of high-density, "design" requirements blah, blah, blah. It was a total nightmare. Believe me, there is no guarantee that "incorporation" will protect you from the kinds of shenanigans I witnessed, where they cram in cheap, ultra-modern, infill homes in an existing neighborhood of modest, older homes. The last time I visited my old house, it was holding up just fine, but the 15 year old infill homes were falling apart and had totally ruined the character of the neighborhood. And that was WITH regulations and restrictions up the yin-yang! So no, planning boards and regulations etc. aren't always "best for the community". What will dictate the type of growth in Cleveland that we will invariably have, will be consumer demand and how the area is marketed. What you do have on your side these days is that home prices are increasing, especially the new-builds which now tend to be in the low 300k's. That alone will ensure some type of consistency in the future, although of course, it's never guaranteed.
And there would only be a few dozen people that went to Cleveland AND own large tracts in that circle anymore. I won't appologize for not having been here longer than the dirt, but I've been here long enough to have personally known most of the people on the memorial signs along side the roads. My kids were born here, and I've busted my butt in the hot sun building all this crap. So yes, like it or not that makes me a very vocal part of this community. I dislike when people try to exclude people from this community because they haven't lived here long enough. In my short time here, More and more of my large tract landowner neighbors have become developers. It is a phenomenon that will keep happening due to our location and proximity to Raleigh. Don't think about the immediate benefits of what you will get for your money think about what you will leave for the future... I can understand the position of the large tract landowner that does not want development, as I also have old family tract land in various places that feel development pressure. It sucks, especially when eminent domain is threatened. I also can appreciate a long term growth plan that I have helped craft that will guide development in the future. That is Benefit #1 Additional benefits to the community COULD include; (when our community has doubled in size again?) Ability to apply for county state and federal grant money for capital improvement or disaster relief CDBG grants, HUD Grants, USDOT and NCDOT Grants etc. Municipal services Police fire trash The ability to collect taxes to pay for such services. The ability to collect taxes is a critical part of paying our own way and ensuring that we create our own community as we see it. The ability to create zoning or development ordinances. Ask the large tract landowners how they felt when Norris road middle school was forced on them? See the link below for some more in depth reading... http://sogpubs.unc.edu/electronicversions/pdfs/incorporation07.pdf
Because they bought a home here, for a reason, every town in this area has homes for sale, they chose this area, because they save a good amount of money on city taxes. I know that is not the only reason but it is a real reason. When we chose to move to this area we only looked at homes that were not inside city limits. I am not saying nothing should change, pardon me, I am just saying that most people who live in this community probably didn't move here saying, "I sure hope we can incorporate this area down the road sometime, I need me some services"
The ability to create zoning or development ordinances. Ask the large tract landowners how they felt when Norris road middle school was forced on them? As I have stated before. The only thing you get is trying to dictate growth. If this community doubles in size again, as you say, we'll encompass several other "communities". How big of a town should we be? Wake county 50 highway, Mcgees Crossroads, West Johnston High, Cleveland High, Steel Bridge, Norris Elementary, 40/42 ?
How big would you like it? Your vote will count, unlike now. Personally I would like it to stay about like it is. I am a big fan of the 2 acre minimum, curb and gutter, and traffic analysis the county implemented. Sprinkle in a bit of business use, etc. I am also in favor of the preferential tax status I have on my land out of town. As long as it remains unimproved I pay almost no tax on it. Maybe something like that would work here? It does not seem like there is any interest in maintaining our current Ag/Residential balance around here lately. I am in no position to start throwing maps out there, generating a boundary would be the most difficult aspect unless an existing political boundary could be followed (Cleveland Township?). I am all about dictating growth to a certain extent, which is why I have put as benefit #1 for me.
2 acre minimum with curb and gutter? Good luck. I can promise you that will never happen. A 100 acre tract allows for 150 lots inside. You can make them as big or as small as you like (septic permits will mandate minimum lot size). Developers always make the lots as small as possible for a few reasons. 1. Its less roads they have to pave. 2. Its less infrastructure they have to put in. 3. Though you would think it would be true, a developer really can not sell a 1 acre lot for more than they can a 1/2 acre lot. You get a 2-3 acre lot and they can sell it for more though. Look at the 100 lot as if it was a deep rectangle. County road at the bottom, nice creek at the top so the rectangle is standing straight up. The top 10 acres, where the creek is automatically goes to open space before the the first lot is recorded. So now lets put a road in the middle and it snakes its way to the top and you have eh...lets just say a 1 mile long road (just for illustration purposes). Your 2 acre lot, with curb and gutter means these will be sewer lots. A septic 1/2 acre lot might sell for $30,000. The same sewer lot will be double that price so that gets added to the price of the house. Your now 1 mile long snaky road, will cul-de-sacs off to the sides at various intervals will now have 10 speed bumps for traffic calming. School bus has to go all the way to the back to pick up the kids in the rear of the development. With a few stops along the way, you are looking at 10-15 minutes of school bus time in your neighborhood road. (going in to pick up and them coming out). Not to mention rescue or fire. This is another reason why developers dont do this any more. Back 15 years ago when the county had R10, R20, R30 and R40 zoning, developments were done, as you suggested but not with sewer. Developers now make the lots as small as possible, cram all the lots at the front of the subdivision for the less roads, less infrastructure (gota get water, cable, electric etc... to the lots). Sewer lots are 4000 square feet to 10,000 square feet, typically, and they are small since you dont need septic area. Of course, there has to be sewer lines for them to tap in to or the developer has to run the sewer from the nearest line and/or pump station and thats a significant cost. Thats why you dont see it in the county very often unless its a big subdivision or a PUD. There is sewer to the east of I-40 towards Clayton. There is very little on the west side.
Ummm, no. I am talking about sewer here and I'd be willing to bet 75% or better of subdivisions built before 2010 are on septic in Cleveland School. So, Cleveland School does not have a treatment plant, right? Why build one when you can license capacity. So for new service hookups, CS installs the pipe that runs to the County treatment plant.
Where did you hear that on septic? Every new subdivision around McGees Crossroads is septic and increasing. Theres no sewer at all on this side of the county. I dont know Cleveland Fire well, but if you think they need more funding, all the fire districts in the county have a separate tax just for them applied to property taxes. Talk to your county commissioners to raise the tax for the district. Instant funding. Im very glad we have this tax. While I live in 50/210's district, I'm glad to see they put theirs to good use (new engines, new station).
Because last year the General Assembly voted to deny municipalities the ability to levy impact fees on new development. Yet movement away from Home Rule in NC.
Because crap flows downhill and every septic tank leaches into some water source. I'd much rather it be moved, treated and then reintroduced.
Funny how your map of Cleveland School Town whatever you want to call it does not include the high school
I think at this point it is fruitless to discuss a name or boundary limit. If there is enough interest in pursuing the option of incorporation the responsibility of naming and boundaries should fall to a steering committee appointed, elected, volunteered or otherwise. Until that point, as we have seen in previous attempts, the subject will only serve to divide opinion and generate hostility.
So who decides if there is interest without knowing knowing who is within the boundaries? Sounds like voting for the healthcare bill to see whats in it.
