Unless you can reinvent parents you are stuck with the ones already in existence, and what good is better education if the tools are not included after the education? I comes down to whether thos ekids that are going to have sex have the protection or not. If so where are they going to get it, in your opinion?
If I'm not mistaken, NC public schools have an abstinence-until-marriage curriculum. What tools are needed with an abstinence education? Since when have condoms been hard to come by?
none of course. that's assuming your absitnence education is 100% effective - which of course we know, it isn't. in a perfect world, children would learn about sex from their responsible, two-parent household. but the truth is, that just isn't happening in more households than we care to think about. so where does that leave the kids without parents they can go to? by condoms in schools, my experience is that the condoms aren't laid out like free-for-all halloween candy - dig in kids! obtaining a condom requires a conversation with the school nurse or counselor, who (with the condom) provide instruction on its use, usefullness, and shortcomings.
...says the woman who gets knocked up when her husband breathes in her direction... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
It seems the concept of abstinence did not work then, does not work now, has never worked for everyone at any time in history, but that should not be assumed to be a problem? It should be never for an adult, but some adults still have trouble getting them. Where would you suggest one of those middle schoolers get them? Walk to the drugstore? Ask their parents for them? Really, what should they do besides just say "no"?
Have you thought of a sharp stick in the eye? They say it is only fun until someone loses an eye ... :wink:
When did I ever assume the concept of abstinence worked for everyone? All I stated was that NC public schools teach abstinence, therefore there is no "tool" to hand out. I was addressing YOUR question. If a parent is ok with the school passing out condoms to their kid, they should be ok to give the child the condom themselves. If they aren't, then they need to be more involved with their children. It's been said that kids who feel more open to talking with their parents about sex, are less likely to engage in risky behavior as teens. Which is why I stated that parents have more influence than they think and that I personally feel better education and more parental involvement is a better solution than passing out condoms at schools. And seriously, WHO has problems finding condoms?! I REALLY want to know who these folks are. Condoms are what, $1 each? You can buy 3 packs in the drugstore. You can use a turn slot machine in bathrooms or get free/cheap ones at the health department. I do not, for 1 sec believe, that some people have a hard time finding a condom. If so, then I hope they don't have sex because they are too stupid to be procreating. Take a note kids. If you are not mature enough to walk up to a counter and buy condoms, then chances are you're not mature enough to have sex.
jt, no one's disputing the fact that better parental involvement is a pretty kickass answer... but it's quite simply not happening. do we just throw up our hands and wait for it to happen? or do we get proactive and think about protection and prevention... rather than intervention after the fact? to me, the combo of education and accessibility beats the hell out of a preggo teen.
Sorry, I misunderstood your post. The fact is that message is not enough because it fails, has failed, and would be expected to fail in the future with similar results as in the past. What of those children who are not comfortable with asking for cndoms from their parents? What of the parents who will not be more involved, believe they are sufficiently involved but are not, and the children who are affected? Yes, but not everyone will fit into that category either on the children's side or the parents side and the problem is still with us. That would be great if it worked. The problem is that it has not worked, is not working, and thus has no expectation of working in the future and we still have the problems associated with this trend of optimistic approaches. For a start there are at least 2,000,000 under the age of 19 who do every year. Given 800,000 to 900,000 pregnancies in that range, with two people for each case and a very conservative rounding up for those who were lucky. http://www.siecus.org/pubs/fact/fact0010.html PREGNANCY Although pregnancy rates among adolescents have steadily declined in the past decade, the United States continues to have the highest adolescent pregnancy rates among industrialized nations. Each year in United States, 800,000 to 900,000 adolescents 19 years of age or younger become pregnant3 You do have to get to a drugstore, with the money, and without being caught if you do not wish to have everyone looking at you. Not all restrooms have them and you still have the transportation issues, especially for the health department, unless you happen to live within walking distance. Nor do I but it is the rest of the population with which there is a problem. This IS the problem because without easier access they WILL be procreating. That is a good point, assuming they can do that, but when does a simple message like this actually reach the target population and cause that entire population to follow it? That is also part of the problem from the adult side of the issue. How many people here who were sexually active before marriage had complete access to birth control from before making the decision to become active? How many had easy access? Myself, I was lucky because the gas station between our Jr. and Sr. high schools had a vending machine, so I had some access. Since they locked the restroom doors when they closed and the closest drug store was 30 miles away it was limited and more so for the kids in the area now since the high school was consolidated and is now in the middle of no where, but the Jr. high moved into the old Sr. high building.
So what about parents who are doing the right thing and don't want condoms just passed out to their kids? That's my biggest issue with it all. If I tell my kids the dangers of sex at a young age and let them no under no uncertain terms that I would not tolerate sex at that age and then they go to school where the nurse says "Sure, you can have sex, here's a condom." If there is a counseling session, like you mentioned grits, does that mean the parent is informed when their child is sexually active?
if you feel like your preparation is effective, JT, then your kids wouldn't feel pressured into sex just because of the availibility of condoms. there are plenty of things in this society that are readily available to our kids... but we do what we can to teach them to make responsible choices. condoms don't give kids permission or motivation to have sex. they simply protect the kids who have already made the choice.
So you think they would believe the nurse over you? If you have the relationship that would cause the children to do that would they not then listen to their firends over you too? If you would not tolerate sex you would rather they were more reckless if they disregarded your opinion? I would not and I do not think you would either. In this situation there is no way for them to ask you for protection so they either follow your wishes or take a risk/ From the statistics I would not want to bet my child's life on them listening to me 100% of the time at that age. Now, the nurse would not be saying they can have sex, but that they should not. But if they have it is unlikely they will stop so the alternative would be to say that if they do they should be responsible. Thus, they have a clear message that they should not but that if they ignore this information they should take precautions. Just like underage driving, we do not want it to happen but if it does we want them to wear their seatbelts and to drive safely. The fact we have provided information to protect does not equate to giving approval. I would doubt it since it would endanger the ability to communicate with those children at risk. The safety of the children's health is the primary concern.
From my previous experience, I would take that risk. I feel very comfortable taking that risk. Fact is, you know nothing about me and fact is, there's quite a bit more to why I feel and believe the way I do that I haven't shared for personal reasons. Without that information, I'm sure I look like a crazy naive fool who thinks children never have sex. I assure you, that's not how I feel. I'm also not saying that my way is the best way or the only way, but I can say that I feel VERY comfortable and assured it will work. You can debate me all you want, you will not change my opinion. Grits and I are friends off the board, and we were talking about this last night. I respect her a great deal, but if SHE can't change my mind, I doubt you have a chance either.
I agree, and I really feel that pre-teens and teenagers are "too embarassed" to come to their parents for birth control or condoms. (Probably because they feel their parents might go balistic, crazy if they found out that they were having sex) Teen years are awkward years, and everything is serious times 10 with teenagers. I think if the school made it known that the nurse's office housed free condoms, I really feel that some kids would definitely take part in getting them, and just maybe, it would prevent one or two pregnancies, and the transferring of some STDs from partner to partner. The school is not screaming, "yeah, go have sex", by passing out condoms, but instead screaming, "hey IF you are sexually active, heres a condom to prevent STDs and pregnancy". And if you hold on too tight to your kids, they sometimes rebel more (I am not saying this is a true fact, but I have seen it happen alot)
No, I know there are some children who would follow the wishes of their parents much longer than others and you could be one of those situations. I am only pointing out the many other situations that are also in the mix. I do not want to change your mind, nor do I expect everyone to share in eithe ryour or my view. What I do want to do is determine the course of action with the greatest potentail for success. I do not think the course of not providing condoms is the best choice and I would not want any individual situation to be the only basis for a decision of this importance.
The question was "Should schools pass out condoms." We all made assumptions about what that means. TO ME, that means given the Abstinence only education they are taught, condoms would completely negate that. And I also see it as a little cookie jar of condoms in the nurses station. No counseling was mentioned, no talk of education to go along with that, just a straight forward question of should they or shouldn't they. You guys say that we're stuck with the crappy parents we have so instead of addressing that, lets just give the kids condoms. Why not have education for both parents and kids, alone and joint classes? What about folks who can come and talk to the kids about their own experiences of being pregnant at 14, or contracting a disease at 13 or what the effects of multiple partners at such a young age can be. I don't know what the right answer is, but I sure don't think "Here's a condom, have safe sex." is the answer AT ALL. And that's the way the question was stated. Teen pregnancy rates have dropped over the last decade. Some claim it's the abstinence until marriage program, some claim it's better contraceptives being used. So that suggests to me that either they ARE listening, or they ARE getting their own contraceptives or it's a great combination of the 2. While the rate is still higher than it should be, especially here in the South, NO ONE can deny the program has worked, at least to some degree.
I would like to see a response from any teachers on this board. What are your experiences with parental interest and involvement in anything? What program are talking about? You've presented multiple explanations and there could be others.
