I love mountains

Discussion in 'Discussion Group' started by KDsGrandma, Jan 21, 2007.

  1. KDsGrandma

    KDsGrandma Well-Known Member

  2. blackbearz

    blackbearz Well-Known Member

    mountains

    I have never heard about the Kentucky sludge disaster.
    It's all very sad.
     
  3. Wayne Stollings

    Wayne Stollings Well-Known Member

    As bad as the video looks it does not impart the magnitude of the problem. There are miles of mountains forever scarred by the removal of overburden. They used to call them strip mines before they figured out the new twist. They had to return the more natural contours in a strip mine, but when the mountain is removed they just have to "smooth" it up a little, which is much cheaper and even more evident.
     
  4. Wayne Stollings

    Wayne Stollings Well-Known Member

  5. rjfields

    rjfields Well-Known Member

    But think of all the miners that are not lost to cave ins, or black lung. :)
     
  6. Wayne Stollings

    Wayne Stollings Well-Known Member

    Black lung is not limited to underground mining ... ;)
     
  7. Snuffleufogous

    Snuffleufogous Well-Known Member

    I'm sorry, RJ, but this one is indefensible by anyone who has a brain. The amount of energy supplied by this coal is easily replaced by renewable energy sources. Did you miss that one? And we don't even have to get into the contribution to global warming made by burning coal! We need to stop treating Appalachia as some third-world country. The value in the beauty of those mountains far exceeds the value of all the coal held within. (Ever seen the New River Gorge?) We badly need a national energy policy that makes sense, but we're not going to get it with the WPE in office.

    The coal company came with the world's largest shovel
    They tortured the timber and they raped all the land
    When the coal was all gone, the land was forsaken
    And they wrote it all off as the progress of man

    John Prine, Paradise

    Thanks for the eye-opener, Grandma

    Snuff
     
  8. rjfields

    rjfields Well-Known Member

    IT WAS A JOKE CALM DOWN.
     
  9. Wayne Stollings

    Wayne Stollings Well-Known Member

    I know, but it was the perfect segue into that aspect as well. If you have ever driven through a "coal town" there will be no mistake as there is black dust everywhere. They try to keep it wet to keep the dust dwon but is has to dry out at some time.
     
  10. Wayne Stollings

    Wayne Stollings Well-Known Member

    Take a trip to Grandfather Mountain and look around. Then take a look at all of the old photographs from the 1960s and compare them to what you have seen. The loss of vegetation is directly related to the emissions coming from the west, which are heavily weighted with the emissions from the midwestern coal fired power plants.

    The amount of mercury released into the atmosphere by coal fired plants is huge and is only just now being measured on a regular basis. There is a huge impact not only from the typical list of pollutants the carbon dioxide emissions from coal fired power plants account for about 25% of all of the carbon dioxide we release in the US. The plants are "grandfathered" against having to control their emissions, which was expanded by the current administration to ensure they did not have to control anything they did not want to control even if they rebuilt the plant completely and doubled its capacity over time.
     
  11. Wayne Stollings

    Wayne Stollings Well-Known Member

    They will not touch the Gorge, because it is visible and the coal seams are too deep. They would have to dam the river and that would be too much to get away with. There are several mines along the Gorge though. They are all abandonded in the area of the park but you can still find them on either side of the river if you know where to look. You can also see some of the mountains in the distance that have been "shelved" leaving a huge high wall all around the contour on the way to the Gorge Bridge if you look closely.
     
  12. KDsGrandma

    KDsGrandma Well-Known Member

    Comparing recent pictures from Grandfather Mountain and Clingman's Dome with pictures from the same locations taken 30, 40 and 50 years ago will show another effect of burning coal, as well. One could see many, many miles farther years ago. Pollution has reduced the views on the best days by a huge amount, and has also reduced the number of days on which you can get a really good view.
     
  13. Wayne Stollings

    Wayne Stollings Well-Known Member

    Some information on the subject. The first link is a little technical but the listing of the emissions is impressive to just scroll through for the general effect.

    http://www.cec.org/files/pdf/POLLUTANTS/PowerPlant_AirEmission_en.pdf


    http://www.cleartheair.org/dirtypower/

    Here, you can launch the power plant locator guide to see the effect on NC and the specific plants. Below is the NSR exemption the coal plants and others got as a gift the rest of us will pay for in the future.


    http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/aug2003/2003-08-28-11.asp

    WASHINGTON, DC, August 28, 2003 (ENS) - The Bush administration finalized controversial changes to federal clean air rules Wednesday that will allow the nation's 17,000 industrial facilities to upgrade and extend their operations without installing additional pollution controls. Critics believe the decision is a serious threat to public health and have already announced they will sue to block the new rule, but administration officials say the revision to the Clean Air Act's New Source Review program provides much needed clarity and will help industrial facilities improve efficiency.
     
  14. KDsGrandma

    KDsGrandma Well-Known Member

    Duke Power is requesting permission to build a huge new coal-fired power plant in North Carolina.
    http://www.newsobserver.com/104/story/534347.html

    Meanwhile, 10 major US corporations (including, ironically enough, Duke Energy) have joined environmental groups to press for action on climate change.
    http://today.reuters.com/news/artic...modLoc=Home-C4-Business-ousiv-5&from=business
    Another article on that story: http://users2.wsj.com/lmda/do/check...?KEYWORDS=duke+energy&COLLECTION=wsjie/6month (that just gives you the first two paragraphs unless you are a subscriber to the WSJ online.)

    - A new state study proves energy efficiency and renewables can displace the need for new large coal and nuclear plants - (still looking for the link to that, will post it when I find it.)
     
  15. rjfields

    rjfields Well-Known Member

    They could stop mining and just put a Nuke power plant in the moutains, would that make every one happy. I mean they can't use hyrdo power I think that would displace too many people and destroy too much land.
     
  16. ready2cmyKing

    ready2cmyKing Well-Known Member

  17. KDsGrandma

    KDsGrandma Well-Known Member

    I know, it seems like some of His children have forgotten to be good stewards of His creation. :-(
     
  18. Hught

    Hught Well-Known Member

    I know you were trying to be a pain, but I tend to agree with you.

    These mountains are beautiful and this type of mining is so very damaging on many levels, but we all still want to warm our homes, or have steel for our cars and phosphate for our toothpaste. So we have options, keep on doing what we are doing now, do deep mining and vastly increase the cost of these materials, or take them from somebody not in our neighborhood (such as the remote pristine wilderness of Alaska, or better yet the Congo).

    I think we can't get away from this type of mining, but it should be more controled, for energy we have got to go nuclear.
     
  19. nsanemom22

    nsanemom22 Well-Known Member

    This is as depressing as the funeral thread.


    I love the mountains.


    :-(
     
  20. Vitameatavegemin

    Vitameatavegemin Well-Known Member

    I went to the mountains every summer, as a kid (Lake Junaluska, Maggie Valley, Cherokee, etc.), and married a guy whose family is from eastern Kentucky... I can't believe they're still strip mining! Notice that it is in the poor poor parts of those states... companies and their lobbyists can get away with lining the politician's pockets when there aren't any other financial interests who'll protest...
    Call or write your politicians or there won't be any Appalachian mountains left, just some grassy bumps on the horizon with some toxic streams running through... (I can't believe how mad this made me, and I'm not any kind of activist...)
     

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