Ok, this is a long story, but I'll try to condense it as much as possible. Sadie is our 8 year old mixed breed dog. We've had her for about four years. Right after she came to live with us, she bit my little one. The bite truly wasn't the dogs fault, my daughter wouldn't leave her alone, invaded her personal space, and Sadie reacted. We aren't even sure she bit her in the traditional sense, we actually think she tried to warn her, and mouth met baby. Fast forward... We've had absolutely NO problems with her since then. My little one has laid all over her, rolled in the floor with her, they have been best buds. Sadie has shown no other signs of agression. At Thanksgiving, we brought home a puppy. There was certainly an adjustment period, but within 2 weeks, Sadie and Chloe started playing together, acting like best friends. Chloe is very submissive by nature, knows that Sadie is the boss, and acts that way. Sadie has full run of the house, Chloe is crated when we aren't home. Chloe is fed in her kennell, Sadie is free fed. We've made absolutely every effort to let Sadie know she is still alpha dog. Within the last month, Sadie has started becomming agressive. And when I say agressive, I mean we have absolutely NO warning. One minute, the dogs will be best friends, playing together, and in the next, Sadie is attacking Chloe. Chloe can walk from one room to the next, and Sadie will get up from her spot and go attack her. There is NO provocation at all, no warning. It's almost like Sadie just flips out randomly. It's happened 5 times in the last 3 weeks, and more recently, once last night and once this morning. Last night, I sat on the couch, Sadie sat at my feet. Chloe walked out of the kitchen into the living room, across the room from where I was, to go sit on the floor, and Sadie jumped her. This morning we let both dogs out in the back yard, went out on the porch to call them in, and as they were walking in the house, Sadie attacked again. The bigger issue is that I'm now afraid she's going to turn aggressive towards my five year old. Little Bit loves both dogs, loves to roll and play with them, but if Sadie is this unpredictable with another dog, we're starting to fear she might start taking it out on Little Bit. I love both of my dogs, and as a dog owner, you never want to be put in a position where you have to choose one over the other. I've even considered trying to find Chloe another home, but in all honesty, with Sadie's random attacks, I'm afraid the aggression will start towards my kids. Somebody help me...please. I don't know what else to do. I called the vet this morning and have made an appointment for Sadie to rule out that there is something physically wrong with her that could be making her so agressive, but if that checks out, what am I supposed to do? I obviously have to do what is in the best interest of my kids; but no one is going to want a dog that shows agression, and I just can't put her down because she's mean. And that's the thing, she's always been such a good girl, so loving. This just breaks my heart.
PRM, I don't disagree with you. I really don't. It's just, well you know how I am, semi-liberal and all, and I feel horrible about the thought of putting her down, like I'm making decisions that aren't mine to make. I'd love to find her another home, but it would have to be a one dog, no small kids home, and I'm guessing those are pretty hard to come by. In the mean time, she's gonna have to stay outside while Little Bit is up and awake. That's my child, and I'm not taking any chances.
Before you give her away, I would try calling Shane Gentry from Sally Said So...he is really in tune to stuff like this and may be able to give you some good advice. I am like you, I don't take any chances with my babies. Shane was able to give me some good advice when Harley kept attacking Zeke...(German Shepherd vs. Terrier, yeah that kind...lol) Harley was trying to make sure that Zeke knew she was the alpha female, and he was just the runt...same type of attacks. It's really scary, I just thought before she gets rehomed, maybe it's worth a phone call. Big hugs girl!! Been there! :grouphug:
Second Chance Pet Adoption If find out you can't keep her, try Second Chance Pet Adoption. They may take her right away considering the circumstances. Hope things work out.
Before you do anything drastic, I might suggest contacting Zookeeper. She has been an immense help to me. I know she does training and she may have some suggestions. With that said, before the "Dog Whisperer" et al, I had a dog put down for being too agressive. This was many years ago, before all this behavoir modification stuff was so well known. The vet advised euthanizing her 2 years before I actually gave up and had it done. That dog was my furbaby, but the choice came to her and my actual baby. No contest. Not to mention she went after the neighbor kids and heaven knows I didn't want to get sued. We had some good friends whose cocker spaniel nearly cost their daughter her eye. That dog had been a menace from the get go. I didn't want to have to explain to my son why I allowed a dog to disfigure him. And before anyone flames me, she was nuts when I got her as a half grown dog in a rescue situation. It absolutely broke my heart and I hope I never have to make that decision EVER again. I was so traumatized it was literally years before I was able to open my heart to another dog and we got Molly. I still cry when I think about it. I hope you can find a resolution.
Poor babies (and people) ... Dogs don't just turn aggressive overnite toward family (pack) they been with or been with them - not unless alpha dog is trying to be established - which you stated is. It may benefit to keep Sophie attached to you on leash if she starts to do all the time. That way the situation is under control immediately & less chance of someone getting hurt/ending up at vet-doctor. Also, keep in mind about Sophie & aggression (should vet rule all looks well).... better to send her to doggie heaven a happy dog as you can make her rather then her go to a home, doesn't work out & ends up being shuffled around & put to sleep anyway. I've had to take an aggressive dog to euthanize (rescue volunteer at the time) after he attacked and attached himself to 2 of my dogs (lived with us for a good month with no issues) ... he didn't know any different as to what was going on. He had a "last meal" from Wendy's (burger & fries and frosty), a quick run around off leash playing, and then a dum dum sucker while he waited his turn to go back to room (he found the dum dum suckers on the table & kept sniffing one so gave it to him & he enjoyed it). It helped in knowing I was able to give him a great fun time in things that I find dogs like to do (eat people food, run hard/play fast & be happy at the end of it all instead of scared of what's going on) Anyway ...it'll work out for what's best for everyone involved.
We had a similar thing happen. We were very close to putting the older dog down, but called a trainer instead just to be sure. He said that it is probably because the puppy was trying to assert herself as alpha and the older dog wasn't going to have it. We were missing the signs of dominant behavior. Look it up online and you may be surprised. Little things like licking, standing over the other dog, jumping, things that look like play can actually be dominance. Long story short, we had to work more with the PUP than with the older dog. All this being said, we don't have kids and I don't know how patient we would have been if we did. Obviously, kids #1, pets further down on the list.
Are both your dogs neutered? We have 2 female dogs who were not (we had just rescued them and had no chance to spay them when this happened), and they got along...at first. Then my old man alpha dog passed away and these two ladies started trying to kill each other. It took us about 2 months to be able to get them both spayed, because they kept injuring each other with stitches, etc. It was quite an ordeal; when we got the younger one spayed first, the older female kept attacking her and we started getting injured. But eventually they both calmed down, and the older dog took over the alpha dog position. We now have eight rescues, and Miss Faith, the alpha dog, needs to meet and approve any foster or new addition to our pack. I am sorry you are having this problem; I see aggressive behavior sometimes amongst the pack, when one is sick, or if another, newer member hasn't established her place in the pecking order. We do make sure they all know that I am - bottom line - the pack leader. Good luck to you; I hope your furry companions can work this out. :grouphug:
That is great that you are ruling out any physical problems first; many people don't think to do that. Please do talk to Zookeeper; she will be glad to offer any help to keep a dog in its home if at all possible.
I thought I'd post an update since you guys were so sweet about our problems with Sadie and Chloe. Sadie saw Dr. Debbie this weekend, and checks out as a healthy girl. Since my last post, we haven't had any issues with her agression, but we've been trying to be very careful and watch her like a hawk. Dr. Debbie wants us to keep a log, and if it happens again, write down exactly what happens; where each of us are in the house, what we were doing, what the dogs were doing, etc. She thinks that by having this info, she can help us to re-train Sadie if that's the problem. She confirmed what we thought, that Sadie is just trying to make sure the Chloe knows who's in charge. In the mean time, I still have to watch out for my little one. She is not allowed to pet or play with Sadie unless we are right there with her. If the dogs are playing together, she is not allowed near them. We've explained the best we could that Sadie is a little unpredictable right now and that is Sadie hurts her, she'll not be allowed to live with us anymore. In addition, I'm trying to give Sadie alone time with me. I'll put Chloe in the kennel, and let Sadie come snuggle and get her own attention. She seems to be responding. Like I said, we've had no other attacks. Thanks again and I'll keep you all updated.
Glad to hear things are getting better! Dr. Debbie is the vet that we took our two feuding dogs to, to get spayed. She was a big help, getting us through the rough patch. All my dogs are patients of hers!:hurray:
"... and I just can't put her down because she's mean." I am sorry, but that is precisely the reason you need to put a dog down. I can't understand for the life of me why people choose animals over a child's safety. Here is the deal. When an animal is "mean," that indicates that it is not happy or has a neurological issue. And animals who were in the past loving and caring feel tremendous guilt when they hurt their people. The humane thing to do is to put them down. I love animals as much as the next person. But one swipe, nip or funny look from a dog to my child or grandchild and the dog is gone that very minute.
Here is the deal. When an animal is "mean," that indicates that it is not happy or has a neurological issue. And animals who were in the past loving and caring feel tremendous guilt when they hurt their people. The humane thing to do is to put them down. QUOTE] Unbelievable. "Mean" Could Be due to crankiness, undiscovered medical issue, etc --- just like people when they do not feel good and are fixable. Unless its an unfixable issue, then of course the humane thing to do would be to put down. But find out first before just doing such a thing. Meanwhile, be adult & responsible and supervise kids and pets - as should be done in a "healthy situation" as well (depending on age/size of child). After all, dogs are still animals that have animalistic instincts in communicating.
Except, "crankiness, undiscovered medical issue, etc... " in a dog often times causes injury or death to a young, innocent child. Why on earth take that chance? That's what's "unbelievable."
Well ... Same deal with people - their moodiness and crankiness, medical issues can cause great harm to people as well. But anyhow ... everyone has their thoughts and disagreements. That's what makes the world go around I suppose. Child supervision based on age & ability should be first & foremost in any life scenarios around "bad" people and animals. That'd be a beneficial way to stop some of the craziness (or try to stop) that is going on in this world nowadays.
Thanks for trying to make Jenn feel like a bad mom...I happen to know that she's an awesome mom and responsible pet parent!!!
PirateGirl, if opinionated, well-meaning posts from anonymous people make Jenn feel like a "bad mom," imagine how she'd feel if her dog, that she-knew-was mean-for-whatever-reason, injures, disfigures or kills her dear child. I truly hope that doesn't happen. God, I don't want to read another one of those stories. We do our best as parents to keep our kids safe from predators, illnesses, physical danger and even from teachers, coaches and other kids from being mean to them (we don't even want them to be made to read a book we don't agree with at school). It boggles the mind how we allow 'domesticated' animals to LIVE with our children, then make excuses as to why their wild instinctual behaviors surface just long enough to hurt the child. We employ doctors (pet shrinks) and trainers to try to 'correct' the poor animal. Bottom line, it's MEAN to put the animal in the position to have to be friendly if it goes against him, and simply poor parenting to keep a dog that has already snapped, snipped, bitten the child in the house. As I stated, my opinion.
I don't feel like a bad mom, so no worries there... I asked for advice, I got it. All opinions are welcomed. I sought the advice of a professional, and I am following it. We've taken the necessary steps to ensure the safety of our children. Are there risks? Well yes. There are risks with owning any pet. If the behavior modification doesn't work, then Sadie will have to go. I haven't chosen a dog over my child.
