ANOTHER school shooting!

My post originaly was addressing your original "I told you so" post. Amish don't use electricity so metal detectors would do no good and who would have expected something as evil as this.

I am interested, if this individual targeted one of our schools, even with a guard, what good would a metal detector have done?

 

There is a female politician in Texas that ran for office because of this type of thing. She was eating with her parents in a restaurant when a gunman starting shooting people at random. She watched her father shot and then her mother, who refused to leave his side. She had a legal firearm in her car, which was not allowed in the restaurant. If she had broken the law she might have been able to make a difference but she could not get to her car. She ran for office and proceeded to work to change the laws.

Granted if everyone were armed it would make some situations safer, but others less safe. There is no way to be sure other than to become a hermit and then there is always the rabid skunks. The odds of something like this actually touching home are very slim and are more readily known with modern communication, but still one has to worry just a bit.

 

Ben, what you are missing is that while these actions may make you feel better now the real question is whether they actually make a difference if there is an incident. Politicians are excellent at knee jerk reactions that make people feel good, but is that really what we want? How much is feeling better worth? The measures need to have some positive effect on the safety in order to be valid.

If there are cases of students bringing weapons to school then metal detectors may be advised, but if that is not the case it is probably not going to make a real difference. Is it better to have an armed guard at the entrance or roaming? All security can be by-passed and roaming random patrols make an intensional intrusion less likely, but the random incident can get through. The guard at the entrance can help prevent the random action but not the planned. Both make it more safe, but the cost is doubled but the safety value is not doubled. That is the law of decreasing returns, which must be considered. The same with "choke points", they add to safety in certain situations and detract in others. The probability of each must be weighed and expert evaluations need to be made.

That should be the focus on the schools now, to determine the most cost effective actions which can be undertaken to make the children the safest without removing their educational budget or making the rest of the country less safe. If you put one police officer on each campus you have removed them from any other duty for most, if not all, of the day. Is it better to have them in one location than another to help prevent the problems. The potential for an attack on a school bus would be just as great if the schools are armed forts. What then? There will even be threats to the schools no matter what is done or how much is spent on the effort IF someone really wants to do something.

Guns are not the only weapon that can be used but explosives can cause even more destruction and can be brought in over time if it is student based. In this case those choke-points could become killing grounds too. There can ALWAYS be more done to protect anything or anyone but there will always be a way to get to that which is protected regardless of the measures taken if the attacker is willing enough.

 

I've always heard a moving target is harder to hit. If I'm faced with something like this... Heck yeah I'm duckin' & running!!


And as for the metal detectors... every time I think about a metal detectors "protecting" a facility... I think of that scene in the first Matrix movie! Those metal detectors didn't stop squat. (second best scene of the movie, btw) 8) Yeah... Metal detectors are just like the sign that we had in our yard that says "ADT Security". Sure it was saying we were secured but did we have the whole system hooked up? Nope sure didn't because if someone wanted to get in and shoot us or steal something... a security system would only be the background music to the crazy voices in their heads telling them to "kill kill kill"

 

Just a little FYI:

I spoke with the principal at my children's elementary school and she informed my that Johnston County School's have a plan in place to install security camera systems in all the school's. This will begin at the high school level, then middle school and finally elementary schools. She was not sure of the timeline, but will get back to me when she has more information.

Thought this info may help some to breath a small sigh of relief to know that somethings are being done to better insure the security and safety of our children.

 

Well, let's all just sit back and do nothing at all. Heck, if they are going to get in, they will. from what you all are saying. Metal detedtors don't work? What planet are you from. Most explosives have metal parts.

Heck, why even sign in at the office. Leave all the doors unlocked.

Just tell your kids to "duck and run" real real funny. hahaha, I am laughing now. Glad it is a joke to you.

Just frickin forget my ideas. Put up a dang camera so you can watch it unfold.

Don't get me wrong I see your point. But really, if it is so random what can it hurt to put things in place? Like I said, I can go in any school in this area and not check in. NOW THAAT MAKES ME NERVOUS>so yes, peice of mind would be good.

 

The reason metal detectors won't be as effective as you'd like to believe is that those who would do harm will simply kill those who man the metal detectors first.

Take a look at this article from today's MSNBC.
10 myths about school shootings

 

Doing the wrong thing may be worse than doing nothing at all in both effects on the children and cost. As for explosives, they are chemical compound that have no metal components. They can be enclosed in plastic, paper, metal, glass, or any of several other materials. The detonation can be a fuse or blasting cap, either of which may pass through a metal detector. For mass terror a bomb works wonders too, just look at the problem in Israel where they have very strict security everywhere and still they have such attacks.

It only keeps the honest people in line to sign in, but it does give a bit of a flag at low cost.

A false sense of security for one, and the cost may prevent another more effective program. That is why all of the ideas need to be discussed, even the ones that will not work, but in the context of the best safety for the children most of the time. Probably the most effective and costly is to have armed police officers assigned to patrol each school.

I agree you should be taken down and searched of you by-pass the office, but then drawing a weapon to ensure you are not going to attack does tend to be a problem with children around. At the very least you should be challenged, but if you are armed the person who challenges you will be the first hostage .....

 

From your post I am picking up a supercilious tone. And I will over look for obvious reasons. I said if I WAS FACED with something like this I would duck and run... Ask anyone (and you being a man, like you say your are, should know this) a moving target is harder to hit. If someone is coming at you with a gun .. move, duck, jump, get the heck outta of the gunman's line of sight. And I will teach my child the same thing. Don't sit there like a deer in head lights. So...Laugh all you want - it wasn't a joke.

AND it might do you some good to unwad your panties. Nobody has mocked you in this thread that I've seen YET... but I predict that with your lashing out at the posters in here... the mocking on it's way.

 

Clif - Thanks for the link! There is some really good information on there.

I, like a lot of parents, feel frustrated and like we should do something. At the same time I agree that we can go too far in "protecting" the schools. I have stressed to my children the importance of alerting a teacher if they feel someone looks out of place or is acting strange. On the same note, they should go to an adult they trust if they hear students discussing threats, bullying, etc..

And duck and cover is a good thing to teach our children. If the opportunity is there to get out of harms way, by all means, take it! Of course they need to be old enough to recognize that opportunity and not make themselves more of a target.

I think we can play both sides of the fence here - If there had been 3 shootings at malls in the last week, would you never go to a mall again? If it had been grocery stores, would you quit buying food? The scenarios could go on and on.

I don't think we should do nothing. I think we should be involved in our children's schools and teach our children right from wrong. I think we should gather all information we can and take it to our individual school's in the hopes of opening a discussion that may lead to better security measures being taken or just following the ones that are already in place.

As I stated in a previous post, I contacted my school's principal and opened the lines of communication. She is taking my concerns, and those of other parents, to her staff and they will discuss in as well.

Unfortunately, there is only so much that we as parents can do, but if we do what we can then we won't look back and say, "If only I had tried to do something.".

 

There are little things we can do. Sorry I don't agree about doing nothing. Your kids will duck and run, I imagine on their own. I imagine there are people going everywhere.

All in all, I am going to say, Stop by your school, Walk in and see how easy it is here. In fact I was there yesterday (WJHS) and I looked over at the office, not a soul at the desk. I could have had a gun and done whatever. I proposed a glass barrier just past the office (how big of a change can that be) Where parents have no choice but to stop. All doors should be locked, except the main door. Put a officer at the station at WJHS. You can ride right by and give the station the middle finger if you want because noone will see you.

We should do nothing. :shock: These few SIMPLE steps would help. I agree you can't stop everything, but do nothing? GREAT!!

Okay. Does anyone see my point at all?

 

I don't know how to do the quoting thing. But if you will re-read my post I said, "I don't think we should do nothing".

I understand you are frustrated, but please read the posts carefully if you are going to respond to them. I myself have had to re-read to be sure I am not going to misunderstand something.

That being said... I agree that there should be someone in the guard station at WJHS, that is what it is there for. So maybe someone should contact the school and find out why there is not someone there during all school hours.

I completely see your point. It is very scary and frustating that we live in a world where these horrific things happen. And yes, we should do everything in our power to protect our children. But we also need to see the reality that even with all the measures in place and all the security on alert, these things can still happen. Again, the link that Clif posted has some really good information and suggestions.

I think everyone should do what they can to prevent more school violence. Even if everyone doesn't agree with you, stand up for what you believe in and take it to the highest level you can. If you want glass, metal detectors, armed guards, whatever... Tell the people who can make it happen, make phone calls, send emails, write letters, attend meetings, do what you need to do to be heard. If we do nothing, nothing will be done.

 

If they have a school lockdown, do they tell all the kids to go to the same place? Worst thing they can do. Chances are good the shooter will know exactly where they're supposed to go, and it will be like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

Montana... she/he doesn't fully read the threads and just randomly post flagrantly off-kilter comments and then claims everyone is against her.

Pay no attention to the woman called man behind the curtain.

 

No and anyone who knows anything about the terrorist drills in place in schools now would be smart to not answer this nor hint to any such actions that take place. Teachers have been trained. And that is all that the public needs to know.

 

First of all she said "I don't think we should do nothing"

Now it is said that she didnt say to do nothing. Her post clearly states "we should do nothing"

I read very carefully. Maybe you should re-read.

 

Funny, it seems just as clear when you type as when I do. Let's go over this S L O W L Y ---
I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD DO NOTHING
I did not say - I think we should do nothing - do you see the difference between the two sentences?
No wonder everyone rips your posts apart.

At any rate....For those of you that passed English in our fine public schoools...

I agree with Koo that a public, anonymous forum is not the place to expose any of our schools strengths and/or weaknesses when it comes to their security.

Maybe that is something we could DO, stop naming the schools that you could just walk right in and how you could get by the office, etc.

 

I'm going to break this down for you...

Montana wrote:

Montana wrote:

You're an idiot... now read your last post.

"I don't think we should do nothing" equates to WE SHOULD DO SOMETHING.

And NO WHERE in her post she clearly states "we should do nothing"

again... you're an idiot. :lol:

 

Thank you Koo. I knew there were educated people here.

 

...believe it or not :lol: