Originally Posted by pastorg You can’t debate me and win. …. Have mercy! Please point me to what I have twisted anything so that I might make straight the crooked. Can you do that? No-no-no-no-no you gotta mean “mistakes”, not “sin”. Lets stay consistent with the intent of your agenda. Ok? Let’s not hope to deceive for personal advantage. Folk will be reading this from you. Now it is you who doesn’t know me. Raining on someone’s parade will never bring accolades from anyone. So it’s really not about me but what I have stated as truth that has rained on your parade, right? Sorta makes it look all wet. But I say that in love. Nah, I don’t think so. Everybody on this forum says they know Him and aren’t at all persuaded by what I post up. They are all full of love and very strong in Him. They know all about Him. BTW, do they attend your church, Pastor? Little ones?? Where are they that I am guilty of offending such? Friend, you maybe should take this admonition to your own heart. …And if what I read from those on this forum are believers, then you are off the hook. …. You offend no one but the Lord God almighty. But I have knowledge and I judge no one except leadership of this one world religious system that is fast approaching who you are hooking your carriage up to…next I know all about your assembly if is of the emergent type, ala Rick Warren &Co. If it is then say no more. You follow a goat. So, where have I mis-judged you? Want to speak of Warren? Wonderful….. You will just have to wait and see how it all turns out, right? In the meantime, what do you have in mind to sustain them? What teaching will you give them now that have been “saved” or “rededicated”. How long do you believe anyone can subsist on the salvation message preached every week with “fluff” sandwiched in between the beginning and then end of you “sermon”. You know, jokes, funny stories about people, maybe a verse of scripture for credibility, etc, etc. Whoa Partner! How is it that “accepting Jesus Christ as my Savior” or “accepting Jesus Christ into my life”, going to change anyone? This is how you present it, isn’t it? I’ll just bet you have people in your assembly who have worn out their re-dedicaters. Yes, and I can imagine how they love to speak of Jesus and their love for Him. I don’t believe that for a minute. You must mean “Tares” are fed up and don’t wish to fall under the scrutiny of an all knowing, all seeing God but still want what He has to offer. I know that crowd. I was of the AOG for a long time. It’s a real mixed bag. Well it is nice that you and for you to say you are bearing Fruit, Pastor. What fruit would perhaps be my next question. But another day for that. You must mean Rick Warren is the master builder, correct, because the church I see and the one promoted by Rick Warren, you embrace, can’t be of Jesus Christ except by some sort of unintended osmosis. I have visited your website and have seen the RW “droppings” all over it. I know your recommended reading. There is no such thing as “connecting to God” by growing faith or serving others as RW would have it be from his “How to” manual for small groups. That is religious Pap based upon Nicolaitene, human reasoning and psycho-cybernetics....Robert Schuller speak. Forget the connecting with God bit, that’s bogus. Speak of how you get them to repent and follow after God with all their heart. That would be very helpful to know especially if there is a program one can dial into, rather than go through the normal channels that Jesus laid out we must needs, follow. That all sounds good but personally, I don’t believe you have a clue. Number one, whose faith is one to be built-up into, his own or the Faith of the Son of God? If one’s own, why is it necessary after he/she is saved. If the Faith of the Son of God wouldn’t it infer His very Life one is to be built up into? [See Gal 2.20 KJV only please. It makes a difference the way it reads.] Can you lead the way in that? Are you leading the way in that? Can Warren or Hybels or Bob Buford or any of those guru's do that or even care? First off, one has to first get into the Kingdom of God. It is by invitation only. The Kingdom of God suffers violence and the violent take by force. Do you have violent people wanting the Kingdom in your assembly, Pastor, or are they taught that as soon as they are saved, they're in? Hmmm? Seems you have more questions to answer. Wonderful. That’s nice. You haven’t and I really didn’t ned any clarification. Why not? Words mean something; they speak of what you are about. Mine are continually being judged, quite unfairly I might add, by people who simply don’t appreciate rain falling on their parade. I can understand that. What I hate is dishonesty and words being mis-represented as you have you mine. I’m not wrong, stop praying. Wake up, go for a coffee. For now, I would settle for it to be just you. ORM
Ormly, what am I waiting so patiently for? You to figure out a clever way to avoid answering me? Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks... speak from your heart and stop trying to disect everything. Pastor G
If you have even asked a question what would it have been that I haven't answered? Stop attempting to marginalze me with your nonsense and get busy answering the questions I have asked you....That you haven't even begun to answer. Go theological on me, I don't care. Just do something except sit there and say nothing. You keep saying you don't because it will be to no avail. That's Baloney! Try it or maybe it is you have no defense, I don't know....but down inside, I do know I just gave you enough to keep you busy for the rest of the nite.
Ormly, I am really trying to understand what it is you're trying to get across, but you ignore most of my questions. :-( Will you please explain to me, a simple sheep, what you mean by the statements above.
Ormly, you have offered nothing but mud slinging. I'm sorry to say it but you are a modern day Pharisee. You believe you have it all figured out and no one call tell you different. You obviously think you have learned it all. I can debate you on and on about theology... but these matters are not for the unbeleivers eyes to take in... I would be dragging Jesus through the mud as you have done on this board. I will not go round and round with a man that has no fruit to prove he is a Christian. However, you have more than proved that you are a Pharisee and I like Jesus will not waste my time on you. Everyone on this board will argree that I am right in my observations of you. I offered you an opportunity to "see the light." And you chose to live in you darkness of spiritual mud-slinging. I will no longer be your target. I've got to be about my Heavenly Father's business and save the lost and train them to be obedient to the commands of Jesus. I will continue to bare fruit and you will continue to sling mud. Sling away! As for everyone else, please don't think this man represents Christians because he doesn't. Get in a good bible-believing church where you can grow in Christ and leave the mud slinging to Ormly. Pastor G
Just curious? I was wondering when someone was going to answer orm's questions posted away back. All I have seen is people getting jacked up for no reason. Answer the questions he asks. I guess that is feeding the troll. If everyone who has spent the time beating up the old guy would just read objectively and try and answer respectfully it would make for a better debate. Not only that but I think this ormly guy is trying to open a wider view of God. Not just the ole redemption line. I mean after redemption what's next? I don't know this pastor or ormly but I think the old man has answered the questions like a true debater, albeit at times alittle hard. I read that "men will hate you because of me."--Jesus
Hey ermergentwarrior, what does you name mean? What drew you to this thread? What's your spiritual background? Just wondering? Pastor G
I am an enemy of the emergent and the Church Growth Movement. I have a theological background. I love Jesus and true discipleship and would love to give you my take on the present day church and where we need to be as a people set apart to God. I believe you both are on the road but need to begin over. You and ormly need to have a genuine debate offline away from eyes.
I would ask you Pastor where do we start in our journey? I have been all over the spectrum and have come to understand that if we do not have the proper starting point, by that I mean, What did God really desire from Adam? (and us)Lets take it all the way back to the beginning. The church has for centuries taught that redemption is the starting point!! It is the doorway unto.....needed absolutely 100% but only the beginning. If we do not start right it all gets weird. That is why I am a warrior because it has gone weird; like a little leaven, leavens the whole lump. I am not trying to be legalistic at all. I want a purity of doctrine not "leadership network Pshyco-bable", leading from you strengths nonsense, a pure uncompromised, unadulturated relationship and love for my father, as a son, that compels me to obey and serve Him, not rules. I could go on but will await a reply. I am a parouser of threads and got interested. Respectfully submitted eW
You two are beginning to sound more like Mormons every day. If we let the non-believers see the secrets of our religion they would not join??? Yep, makes me want to show up at the donut shop and church. Hey, isn't that what C3 is doing?
for the sake of sanity please ignore ormly and emergentwarrior. You will never get them to answer a question and nobody will ever measure up in their eyes.
No c3 is not doing that. I have met Pastor Matt and he would love to have you. not my cup of tea but he has a genuine love for Jesus.
Thank you emergent. I appreciate you anwering my questions. I would debate Ormly offline if I thought it would do any good... but I'm not certain at this point it would. See what Ormly doesn't understand is that I agree with some of what he says about the emergent church movement, I also believe that it can be dangerous and it has led some people astray in some churches... however, I am not ready to paint everything that is contemporary with the emergent church brush. There are some churches, like ours, that are contemporary without selling out to the Warren-group philosophy. I will admit that when I started our church 3 years ago I was "Purpose-driven" crazy, however, I've done a lot of growing in three years and I realize now that we need to allow Jesus to build our church the way he desires to build it. And as I said before, he is building it and we have the fruit to prove it. Ormly still hasn't answered my question, "when the last time he led someone to Christ out of love and not fear of hell." I still waiting for that one. I think he has purposely skitted it. We will see, right? Pastor G
Pastor I concur that all contemporary is not ill; but as leaders we will be held to a higher standard or accountability. I want that we teach and preach "pure". In the day that we live in, to coin a phrase, "we need to separate the wheat from the tares". Preach to them, love them, minister to them but be careful. the whole timothy deal, teach to faithful men. Too many of our churches are letting anyone be the leader; facilitator's we call them. I dont see that in the Bible. I see Jesus with the twelve, Paul with his men, follow me as I follow Christ. Pouring our lives into a few men or women. Our churches are caught up with Outdoor kitchens and wait a minute, "cotton candy messages" that are forgotten as soon as we hit the parking lot, "woohoo what's mama cookin today?!!!; instead of weeping at the altar for co-workers and family. We have lost the "PASSION of the CHRIST" and all that HE represented. Not just SAVIOR but SONSHIP. I want to see people know the truth and the beauty of the real story of God, if we could grasp that we would not need a "purpose driven book". I heard a Christian mystic say, "If my failing for Christ means that I only have a congregation of 12 then I have lived a victorious life as a Son." Jesus let me fail.
Pastor G, I am not a real threader and don't understand the nuances of posting, like how to add a previous posters thread?? No clue, sorry I was answering another poster, he said, dont respond to orm or eW, something like that? I will learn as we go.
like sunshine?? just said blown cover. How do you add a posters comment? a serious question. any takers?
hit the quote button to the right of her post. Anything between the "quote" and "/quote" get credited to that poster.
