If the once saved always saved holds true then how can you have so many "born again" christians? Craig
I believe that when you are saved, you are saved. BUT! I also believe that when you get saved you must be sincere in your heart that this is what you want and are not just going through the motions because it seems like the thing to do. God knows your heart so he will know if you are sincere or not. When a person becomes truly saved, they have no desire to go and do all the things they used to do that do not line up with God's word. It's not a feeling of "Oh, I can't do that or I'll be in trouble." It is more like, "Ya know...I just don't have that desire anymore and it is not for me." You won't want to do all that mess any more, not because you feel it is a "rule" but more so because, like the Word says, you are a new creature, old has passed away and a new one is born.
If you add the but, I assume you do not believe in "once saved, always saved". Otherwise why have a "but" or other conditions? Either you believe in "once saved, always saved" or you do not.
Pooh Bear, Read the whole thing please. I'm sure you read the entire thing of other posts, read mine.........then you'll know the WHOLE story.
I don't believe that when Christians speak of "born again" thay are speaking of christians being "born again". "Born again" refers to accepting Christ as your personal saviour, asking Jesus to forgive you of your sins and asking him to enter into your life. Christians are "born again". Once you are "born again" you do not have to be "born again".
"once saved, always saved!!!????" you have got to be kidding. If you walkin the light and then turn you back you are not going to heaven. it's as simple as that. You must continue to live a christian life or you will burn. It's not a one time deal. THese protestors are going the other way. They hurt people nad shove their lame beliefs down peoples throats when they are in their time of grief. If I ever saw them I would boo and scream and them....to say the least. And since I try to live by example,... I would quell the urge to run them all over. BTW - I did have fun Saturday morning supporting and waving at the Vets, (and others), as they protested the anti-war protesters in Smithfield. One side of the street was one group and one side was the other. One side got thumbs up, waves and smiles and the other got an unchristianly gesture. (never said I was perfect). If you don't want to, or can't bring yourself to support this country and all it asks, then get the heck out. I am proud of our Vets, and the men and women serving. Anyone who isn't can KMA
I disagree with Jesus forgiving people. I think that when you walk the walk that Jesus walks, you atone for your sins. Saying "sorry" is not the same as being truly sorry, and making up for it.
A person who willingly, humbly, repents of sin and turns towards the cross, trusting Christ as their Savior, will be saved (Acts 16:31, John 6:37, John 14:6) That salvation is once and for all, eternal, and secure. Those who truly trust in Christ are saved once, and saved always. I am not very good at debating but here is a web site that supports my belief. www.allaboutgod.com/once-saved-always-saved.htm Where are our pastors that frequent this board? Can they comment?
Based on the web site I cited: "Also, according to the Bible, if we could lose our salvation, then it would be lost forever, because Christ only died once. Hebrews 6:4-6 is an often misunderstood passage, which strongly supports the doctrine of eternal security in two ways: it implies that Christ’s sacrifice must be sufficient for all sins, and states that if it were possible for a person to lose their salvation, it would be forever lost. According to this passage, if a person could do something that cost them their salvation (which they cannot), then it would be “impossible” for them to be re-redeemed."
Ok PooBear, you asked for a pastor's input so here I go. Short, sweet and too the point. First, I can give you scriptures and get into a big debate which has already started. However, people loved to twist scriptures and take them out of context so I won't go there. What I will present is common sense. I can tell you this as a fact. I know, that I know, that I know, that I am saved. My salvation (if I continue to choose that root) is eternally secure in Christ. But I can choose to walk away tomorrow and cease to be saved. I've heard people say, "Well then you weren't saved to begin with." I can't deny my experience and you have no right to question it. Salvation is a gift and just like any other gift we can always return it. Second to salvation the most wonderful gift is the gift of free will. I "choose" to love God. I "choose" to accept the free gift of salvation. Today I "choose" to live in covenant relationship with God through Jesus. God never took my freedom of choice, my free will away when I accepted salvation. Can you loose your salvation? You can choose not to be saved, just like millions of people that you and I know that choose not to follow Christ. As Joshua once said, "But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord." Today I choose to serve and follow after Christ, how about you? Who are you serving? Pastor G
Can a Christian lose their salvation? - No! My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. John 10:27-29 Do Christians still sin? Of course, we do. But, there are 3 ways we can fight the temptation of sin: 1. Give in to it. 2. Fight it. 3. Overcome it through Christ. If we sin, does that mean we have lost our salvation? Not according to Scripture. Well, what about those who act like Christians and then fizzle out or turn back to the World? Did they lose their salvation? Let's see what God's Word has to say: They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us. 1 John 2:19 Dr. Adrian Rogers had a saying: Faith that fizzles before the finish had a flaw from the first. Another passage to consider: In Phillipians 1:6, the apostle Paul writes: Being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it. What God started in YOU when you first trusted Jesus as your Savior, He will finish! A quick analogy from Dr. Rogers using Noah and the Ark: God told Noah to make the ark, and the Bible says, "Then Lord said to Noah, 'Come into the ark.' " He didn't say, "Go into the ark." He said, "Come into the ark." (Gen 7:1) If I'm HERE and I say, "You go THERE," that means you go where I'm not. If I'm HERE and say, "Come in HERE," that means you come where I am. Right? So God was in the ark. Had the ark gone down, God would have gone down. And then the Bible says, "And the Lord shut him in" (Gen 7:16). Why did God shut the door? Two reasons - to shut the water out and to shut Noah in. Noah and his family were in the ark. How safe was Noah? As safe as the ark. How safe am I? As safe as Jesus, who is my ark of safety. Noah may have fallen down inside the ark, but he never fell out of the ark because God shut him in, and God sealed him in! The Bible says in the Book of Ephesians that after we're saved, we are "sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" (Eph 1:13). We're sealed into the Lord Jesus Christ.
I have always been taught growing up that 'once saved, always saved.' I remember a pastor once saying that there are no updated editions or revisions to The Lamb's Book of Life. To be totally honest, I don't know the 100% 'written in stone' answer. Kent, I read your post and from the scripture in John 10:27-29, it would seem you cannot lose your salvation. (By the way Kent, I am new to this site but I have been lurking for a while and reading many of your posts. You are an inspiration to me and although I we have not actually met (only virtually), I have developed a great deal of respect for you !) However, as a Christian that had backslidden and was out of God's grace for a number of years, it sure did not feel as if I would have been judged positively if I had met God during that time. But, who knows, maybe God allows us to feel that separation and despair when we are His children and are yet isolated from Him. Remember from the story of the prodical son, the father was very happy at the son's final return, and pulled out all the stops once he was re-united. I do have a question for you Kent, or anyone including Pastorg: At one time Judas Iscariat was in good graces with Jesus as one of His disciples. After his suicide, Peter and the others chose another to fill his place by casting lots and prayer. Jesus said that the 12 disciples would each rule over the 12 tribes of Israel in Heaven. Will Judas be one of them? Also, Lucifer was once a highly regarded and musically talented angel within God's realm until he fell from God's grace by thinking he was equl to God. And we know what happens to Satan in the end (we've all peeked and read ahead). since these two were both pretty much in God's grace and fell out of God's grace, and we pretty much know what will happen to them, then why can't we be the same?
QUESTION: I am a "vet" and I'm standing on the side that gets the, "unchristianly gesture," do I have to, "get the heck out." and KYA? Or are you proud of me and the sacrifice I made going to war for you? Cause my dodging bullets gave me a hell of a better view of war than your arm chair seats. Don't confuse your action with patriotism, it was ignorance.
Just a quick note to say I appreciate the kind words about my posts. You and others have been very gracious. I’m reminded of a story that Corrie ten Boom, the Holocaust survivor and Christian author once said about some compliments she had received. She treated each compliment as a flower and when she got a bouquet she bundled them up and placed them at the foot of the Cross! Whatever blessing, however small, I am to others, I give that honor and glory to the Lord. You've raised some good questions. It’s good to see more spiritual discussions coming up on the board. I've been out of town and other obligations have limited my on-line time, so bear with me for a few days. I'll try to answer some of your questions as best I can, but hopefully others will join in.
(1)There is a strong belief that Judas was an evil person from the beginning and for that reason was he chosen to fulfill the old testament scriptures. --------------------- It was allowed by God that satan entered into Judas, John 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly. It was known from the beginning of creation what would happen that night. Judas was really not ever in the good graces of The Lord. He was allowed to be in the presents of Jesus, to full fill the scripture. Have you ever heard the saying “keep your friends close and your enemies ever closer.” I don’t know if Judas will be judged on what he did while satan had control of him. But the commentaries that I have read about the subject, tells that satan had entered Judas before, giving me attitude that Judas allowed satan in, just as many of today’s world do with the gothic explosion that is going on. Here is a quote from Adam Clark (That thou doest, do quickly—As if he had said: “Thou art past all counsel; thou hast filled up the measure of thy iniquity, and hast wholly abandoned thyself to Satan; I will not force thee to turn from thy purpose, and without this thou wilt not. Thy designs are all known to me; what thou art determined to do, and I to permit, do directly; delay not, I am ready.”) which to me pretty well sums it up. (2) You must remember free will, when you ask this question. God created the angels just as He created us. And as odd as it may seem, God knew what would happen. So if God knew what would happen then you have to ask yourself, was satan really ever in God graces. Not to say God didn’t love him. We humans don’t know hardly anything about the mysteries of God. Even though some think they do, we are all just stumbling around with what we think we know. And that is the only thing I know for sure.
