"Cleveland Market" - Proposed Shopping Center on Cleveland Road near Fire Station

Looks like the family farmers out in Selma were more on the ball than us. They started a Facebook page and booted CSX off their farms when CSX wanted to claim eminent domain and raze their farms. In the end, the county commissioners supported them.

 

The "family farmer" is a 26 year old with a 10 acre entertainment venue. I hate eminent domain, but shutting down a 300 million$ project in an economically depressed area is questionable IMO. The surrounding area would take off in less than 10 years. We've been here several generations and learned to accept many years ago. We diversified and found ways to make a living off the growth without subdividing unless necessary. Maybe some folks should consider east of 95. I have grown quite fond of restaurants, groceries, retail, and beer sales.

 

If CSX does not decide to continue with the project anyway. Neither the county nor the state have the ability to easily nix the project given the legal status. I doubt if CSX will give any further information on the project until either the people decide to take the offers or they start filing condemnation suits.

 

You're right. I believe that is the fellow who started the Facebook page and ended up getting
over 6,000 "likes", although I can't confirm that figure. I too am "quite fond" of restaurants and beer, (the hoppier, the better!) but I'm more partial to smaller shops and private owners who aren't chain stores, since with chain stores, every place starts to look exactly the same after a while, and the small business owner tends to get the short end of the stick - if they get left with any stick at all. As far as CSX goes, it could work somewhere, and would attract businesses, but usually it's the sort of businesses that tend to service workers of the main operation, and not the surrounding area.

 

So, if manufacturing, distribution, logistics and such locate adjacent, it won't help the community? Those people gotta live somewhere, eat, travel, and purchase. If Bob's Widgets wants to build a plant close by, somebody's property is now more valuable. Head east of 95. Then Four Oaks, Benson, Goldsboro, or Clinton will be your only impediment to rural life.

 

And that attitude is exactly the problem. It's one of continual resignation or worse - continual hostility. It's either blame the "damn Yankees", (a moldy old chestnut considering newcomers are coming in from just about everywhere these days), blame the "people with money", tell your concerned neighbors to "get out", or launch an attack, just for the sake of attacking. All these cantankerous attitudes solve nothing, and does nothing to improve our situation. There is no reason why we can't come up with a reasonable solution for reasonable growth,especially in light of the fact that our neighbor's requests were not heeded. That's a cause for concern.

 

what constitutes reasonable growth? I've only seen two sides. Build it or stop it. There has been some control instituted. Originally at 42, everybody got a driveway. Now it's more of a common driveway for all. Remember the "spite strips" at 42. I know of a deal right now that involves one owner bearing the brunt of the entire right of way while leaving the opposite side open to development.

 

"What constitutes reasonable growth"? That's a very good question, and one that should be addressed as Cleveland becomes impacted by more and more growth in the coming years. We are currently in a "hot" real estate market, which means that as land values increase, it will become more attractive for owners to sell and develop, and as you can see, property can be rezoned from rural designations into commercial nodes in the blink of an eye. I agree, there needs to be a compromise discussion somewhere in the middle of "build it", or "stop it", but in order to do that, we'll need to hear from neighbors about what kind of place they want Cleveland to become in the near future. People are living here for a reason, whether they're like you, and their families have been here for generations, or newcomers who fell in love with the place. We just need to figure out what that is, and promote it. I'll try to open up a new thread, and get a discussion going that Cleveland residents can contribute to. Change is inevitable, that's for sure, but it doesn't have to destroy the things that make our area special. In other words, we can have our cake and eat it too.

 

Just because you don't like or want something, doesn't mean there is a legal reason to stop it from happening.

 

Deleted.

 

where is the cleveland commercial hub?

 

Why else would a resident go to the hearing? Very rarely is something legally wrong with the subject up for discussion. Most of the time it's because a group is protesting because of unsafe and increased traffic in an area that is already bad. If you tell too many people what you just said, no one would ever have a reason to go to a planning board meeting and everything legal can just be pushed right through.

 

Something being unsafe would be a legal reason to reject it. Excessive traffic congestion could also be a legal reason to reject something, but there has to be an objective conclusion based on some type of evidence to support such a position. The opposition based on an assumption of lack of safety or excessive traffic without such supporting evidence was the point being made. If there is an objective reason and evidence to support it there is a better chance than merely disliking something and claiming that it will be unsafe, for example.

 

My point exactly. This issue at hand was the planning meeting for the Food Lion development. I stated in my first post about it having plenty of opposition to the project. The opposition is from local residents that travel that portion of road every day. It's obvious that neither of you do, or you would understand that the McLemore Road and Cleveland Road intersection is already congested and dangerous. Not to mention the curve on McLemore Road and intersection of Cleveland Fire Road. Numerous accidents have happened there. Now they are going to add yet another entrance to McLemore Road right in the middle of the curve! But according to you to, the opposition is just because the people don't like the development. Then you comment about safety and traffic being legal. Please make up your minds! It's one or the other. The residents and local owners who were there voiced these concerns and the traffic study was incomplete and couldn't even tell what kind of impact it would have on the McLemore Road area. My one question to you two is were you at the meeting? Judging by your responses and ignorance on this issue I can tell you weren't!

 

Both are relative terms, which would require quantification of each of them for comparison to other similar areas if there were to be a ruling to stop the project. Any appearance of an arbitrary decision opens the door to litigation.

This would be a good set of data to present. The number of accidents over a period of time, the number of injuries (if any), deaths (if any), property damage, types of accident (single versus multiple vehicle) and determined cause.

No, I never made such a cliam.

If there is an objective reason and evidence to support it there is a better chance than merely disliking something and claiming that it will be unsafe, for example

The difference is providing evidence to support a claim and just making a claim. One carries weight and the other does not.

Pointing out the issues with the report in comparison to other similar studies would be required to refute the study unless there was another competing study which could be used to refute it. The problem is that shopping centers can spread out the traffic pattern outside of the "rush hours" which can be concluded to not have an impact on congestion.

No, I had no reason to be but I have been involved with more than a few such situations dealing with the development of property I did not own, property I did own, property I was contractually bound to assist, property of associates, and several roadway expansions so I do have some insight as to what does and does not work. Homework is the key to support or opposition of anything. Opinions are good, but if they appear to be less than informed it hurts their usage.

For example, there was a development which a group was trying to fast track and as such by passed the majority of the planning/zoning red tape. They felt they could move quickly because they were willing to do things far above and beyond what the requirements would be in order to move it along and to be a "good neighbor" considering one of the people who would be making the decision lived in the neighborhood. The problem was the neighborhood had a clear NIMBY position and voiced their concerns to that person who stated he had to do what his neighbors wanted rather than the job for which he was hired. This was after the comments from planning/zoning indicating the clear benefits that were not required for legal approval. The group had to go back and do everything in order and as a result they did the bare minimum required, which increased traffic congestion and they even opened a road into the neighborhood they had declined to do previously. Everything done was legal and could not be challenged so the neighborhood suffered for making an uninformed decision claiming the initial development plans created too much traffic and the density was too great .... but the data showed they could legally do less upgrades on the roads and increase the density of the development, both residential and commercial, to make more money ... which they promptly did to offset the delay they had to deal with.

Had that one person dealt with the facts rather than the opinions of his neighbors, he and his neighbors would have been better off. He did try during the slower process to convince the developers to add back in some of the things they removed to offset the delay, but he was not successful. That bridge had been burned.

 

Jesse82nc. Question for you. I am not sure if they post it to the NC DOT page, but are there any plans of ever putting a traffic light at McLemore and Cleveland School Road? I remember when I lived in Raleigh off of Duraleigh Road and Delta Lake Drive, there were lots of accidents at that intersection. They had plans to put a light there about 5 years after I moved here. But they eventually had to put one up after an accident caused a death.

It's kind of like what they did at Cornwallis where it meets Josephine/Shilo road when there was a death caused by an accident. It should become a traffic light instead of a 4way stop

 

With the Food Lion coming, I'd predict a stop light Rocky. Of course, this is just my guess.

 

Lol,, as I got to the end of this I thought it was Wayne's quote.

 

okay. I hope you are right. It's tough getting out of there normally.
and to add a bit of levity to this:


Rockyv58: Mr. Cynadon, have you accounted for the variable mass of whales and water in your time re-entry program?

Cynadon: Mr. Scott cannot give me exact figures, Rockyv58, so... I will make a guess.

Rockyv58: A guess? You, Mr. Cynadon? That's extraordinary.

Mr. Cynadon: [to McCoy] I don't think he understands.

Leonard McCoy: No, Cynadon. He means that he feels safer about your guesses than most other people's facts.

Cynadon: Then you're saying... it is a compliment?

Leonard McCoy: It is.

Cynadon: Ah. Then I will try to make the best guess I can.

 

Quite certain.