HARVEY'S ALTERNATE POWER(FUEL) THREAD

True, maybe you should start by stating and explaining the 1st & 2nd law of thermodynamics.

 

OK, fine, I'm not going to argue with you about that. If we could convince people to become vegetarians, there would be plenty of corn for food and ethanol too.

 

I thought the govt was currenty paying farmers not to grow crops? Did I imagine that?

 

I don't think using food for fuel is sustainable at our current energy consumption levels. I don't want to see that happen. I think a society can reach a certain point where their increasing greed leads to diminishing returns. When you start burning food to maintain your lifestyle ...that can't be good. We're going to have to face the fact that the rest of the world is catching up and we will have a smaller share of the world's resources in the future. We can't keep driving landships that get 15 mpg just to carry 1-2 people ...unless we're willing to pay the increasing price.

 

QFT. =O (quoted for truth.)

 

If we could do it in a way that helps small farmers, doesn't promote the clear cutting of new land, doesn't affect related food prices (chicken, eggs, beef, etc), doesn't increase pollution from fertilizers & pesticides, is combined with energy efficiency efforts, etc ...realizing that it is only a temporary solution ...I could go along with it. But I'm not sure we wouldn't be just as well off to spend that same money looking for more oil. I would hate to someday see large corporate farms clear-cutting everything in sight to grow fuel corn. In the end I think our energy has to come from wind, wave, solar, nuclear, etc ...or we will soon be at a dead end.

 

Heard about it the other day.
http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/publications/publications.htm?SEQ_NO_115=202385

 

Interesting. Looks like a study proposal, made a couple of years ago. I wonder how it's coming along?

 

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/06/16/kudzu-biofuel-ethanol.html Here is something from June 2008

 

Corn, or crops for that matter, are NOT a renewable resource. They may seem like it because you can plant them year after year...that is, until the fields go fallow. Or you could fertilize the heck out of them to prevent this from happening, but most high yield fertilizers are petroleum based and we all know where most of that comes from.

It is not renewable if you have to sustain it with another form of energy. Renewables include wind, hydro-electric (assuming no drought), tidal and geothermal to name a few.

 

Answer this....

This is way outside the box thinking....If we have an electric car where two wheels are pulling. Why could we not use a combination of solar recharging and front two wheel generation to keep a constant charge? If you have multiple cells for power. It seems multiple charging continuous sources should be utilized. Not requiring a plug and a wall outlet. Therefore FREE FUEL.

 

I think if you strapped enough solar cells on to a Prieus and killed the gas fuel engine (I would put a switch on it for cloudy days) you could do it.

 

Sorry Sir, I am not playing on Semantics. Efficiency is not an issue on an ELECTRIC car. Two wheels producing electricity to maintain a continuous charge on the fuel cell will not even be measured by efficiency. Since Efficiency would not matter. We are not burning fuel, we are making fuel. I stand on my statement. I truly believe "Efficiency" is not an issue on a car never requiring fuel.

 

Kind of like the connection of a motor/generator to generate less power than it uses? If you travelled downhill virtually all of the time that system might work since it would increase the energy usage greater than the amount of energy produced over having no generators on the wheels for level and uphill applications.

 

It is an issue. It takes a certain number of watts (Y) to turn the wheels one revolution. If you add a generator that produces X number of watts of energy the energy required to turn the wheel one revolution will be Y (original energy need) + X (the amount of enegy produced by the generator) + Z (which is the loss of energy in the generator system due to friction and inefficiency)

Since the two wheels would not maintain that charge unless they travelled downhill more than uphill or on the level, the efficiency of the energy system would be critical in knowing how much faster the battery would be exhausted with this system as opposed to the regular electric vehicle.

You cannot "make" fuel in that system since you are using more "fuel" than you could get back out.

If there were such a car you might have a point, but this case is not one of those where the car does not need fuel (electical energy from an outside source) to maintain the operation.

 

Actually a generator will generate what ever step up or step down you would need to maintain or build a charge. The technology is there.

 

Wayne I take it this is WAYAAAAAAAAAAAY to complicated. A Hill has nothing to do with forward momentum. If both front wheels have generators that produce 24 volts a piece and the two back wheels have motors that only require 12 volts for forward momentum (No Hill INVOLVED) then you would produce enough ENERGY to supply the BATTERY(OR FUEL CELL).

It's simple. Like on the prius. It uses gasoline to get to the desired speed, motor turns off, electric motor starts and replaces the gasoline energy source.

This is the same concept. Electricity will be used to supply the motors for forward motion until the desired speed, then at the same time the front tires are already producing double the amount of energy needed to supply the batteries for continuous power. THEN you can also have solar cells embedded in the roof to help power the car continuously.

 

Go get yourself a generator, and connect it to a light bulb. turn that generator enough to light the light bulb. then consider that (a) in your system, that amount of effort will be expected of the engine already powering a car, and (b) in your system the power currently powering that light is what you're expecting to make that amount of mechanical energy.


Also:
Connect a generator to an engine, and you know what you get? (roughly)

 

Dispassionize if you will....One of my many forte's are Electricity, and electrical motors. I stand by my word. I will build it. You will be a hater until I do.

 

Thats fine and dandy but that is an alternator. A Generator can have a step up process that can produce a lot of energy. When you add 2 generators. Then we have fun.


Here is an average for a generator that is diesel powered.

Rated Power: 20KW ~~ 200KW (25KVA~~ 250KVA)

· Rated Voltage: 220/230/400/440 V ,and it can be adjustable.

· Connection Type: 3 Phrase 4 Wire

· Rated Frequency: 50/60 Hz

· Fuel Consumption: <=230 g/kw.h

· Insulation Class: H

· Standard Degree of Protection: IP22

· Noise Level(DB): <=72 A (by 7m distance)

· Start Method: Auto start or Key start.

· Cooling Method: Water-cooled,Closed system.

· Type: Open frame, Silent,with sound-proof or weather-proof canopy

· Fuel tank: 8hrs operation base tank

· Full Range Protect function and automatic alarm shutdown system

· Advanced and reliable controling system

· Economic and work stablely in high temperature environment.

· Tools Kit for Maintaince

The diesel is just to turn the generator. This one produces 20kw - 200kw. AC not DC. When you convert these types of number to DC...It's amazing the power you gain. I'm just sayin.....It can be done.