So, when do you think Jack died? Was it at the initial plane crash or after all that time on and off the island?
According to Christian (lol, the shephard of the Christians) they were all dead at time of impact and the island was their chance to "redeem" themselves be it to right a wrong or just find themselves
I thought Christian said something like "we all die Jack, some of them (his friends in the church) died way before him and after him" so then they wouldn't have all been dead on impact? :?:
I think/feel that the Island time line was/is the real time line and that Jack actually died there in the bamboo forest, just how he started the show, he ended the show. And that the sideway time line was their own form of purgatory where each had to come to grips with thier own issues before they were ready to be awakened by Desmond.
This is what someone in a forum which is discussing Lost's last episode stated. Quote: Anyone that thinks they were all dead from the start, is just showing their lack of intelligence. It has been stated over and over again by the writers and producers that the characters were not dead. A few characters hinted that they might be but that was to throw off the gullible people watching, of which there are obviously plenty! Here are some highlights of what the producers have said until they were blue in the face: Producer comments: The purgatory theory was debunked by J.J. Abrams in a Zap2it interview published in March 14, 2005, "though he claimed to like the idea." The theory was again expressly debunked by executive producer Damon Lindelof in a New York Times interview published on May 25, 2006. Noting the fact that the finale of Season 2 shows the outside world in the present (as opposed to a flashback) for the first time, Lindelof added: "People who believe that they're in purgatory or that they're subjects of an experiment are going to start reassessing those theories based on the fact that we are literally showing you the outside world." This theory was rejected again by Damon Lindelof on the October 6, 2006 podcast. Following the airing of "D.O.C." and Naomi's revelation that the wreckage of Oceanic Flight 815 was allegedly found and there were no survivors, the "purgatory" theory was again debunked twice; first by Damon Lindelof in an interview with E! Online [1], stating that "If we did such a thing after repeatedly stating otherwise, we'd be tarred and feathered!"; and second, by Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse in the April 30, 2007 podcast, insisting out that "we were not lying, it's not purgatory" and listing several possible other explanations for Naomi's revelation. Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse again debunked this theory in a Lost recap special when they added that the Losties are not dead and "do exist somewhere in the space time continuum."
They were right, the Island wasn't pergutory, that was real. The sideways world was pergutory what I am getting from it all.
So why were the crash victims the ones in the church? Those were supposed to be people important in their lives. They never would have known each other. I tend to believe they actually lived on the island for a while. The part that throws me is that at the end, there is the shoe in the bamboo and the wreckage on the beach. That makes it seem like the crash had just happened. Why oh why am I putting so much thought in a TV program????
Lost Reenacted by cats Lost Reenacted by cats - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-DShnvNNv0&feature=player_embedded
I dedicated 6 years of my life to watching that show and after seeing every episode the only thing that I am 100% certain of is that Sawyer looks damn good without a shirt.
that was my take on it also. It was said they created the purgatory so they could all meet up again and as for Ben not being ready to go in, if he really accepted Hugo's role as sidekick then he also accepted immortality and could not go in, the island was his heaven.
Very long, but probably the best breakdown I have read: Someone from Bad Robot (The company that produced LOST) spoke out about the show: First ... The Island: It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so. Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work. Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping (Edit: This guy is referring to a John in the discussion context, not on the show). Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself. Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent. Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun. In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ... Now... Sideways World: Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix. The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving. It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment. How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac. But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny. They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc). A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me. But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it. So there you go.
Good run down, however the above statement is incorrect. Desmond did not show up until season 2 and Penny was never on the island at all yet they were still in the church.
Actually I thought Desmond was in Season 1 during a Jack flashback. As well as I thought Penny had been in season 1 as well. Will have to go back and read/watch to figure out for sure. But this line from the run down I posted could be the answer to your statement
