Makes me ashamed to be from Johnston County

I think what we are missing on is the decision was more of an individual opinion (the childs parents) rather than an average of individual opinions (many childrens parents). Therefore, I don't think the library would continue to exist under those guidelines.

 

"It's not our agenda," said Tim Harris, one of the board members. "My personal opinion and how I vote don't always jibe"

exactly. he votes the average of the opinions of those who he represents.

 

aha...i think the decision was made because of an individual complaint, yes, but that the final determining vote was placed by school board members based on their understanding of the average of individual opinions amongst their constituencies.

 

How did they establish that?

 

That's just what we don't know, because it was done behind closed doors, in violation of the state's open meetings laws. I agree with Dangerboy that the school board has both the right and the responsibility to decide what books will be in our schools. (Please correct me if that's not your POV, DB). But I feel strongly that it should be done in the open, not behind closed doors.

In most cases, maybe 99% of the time, the teachers are the ones who should choose their own curriculum materials. They have the training and the responsibility to do that, or they should not be teachers. In the rare case where there is a dispute over the appropriateness of a book, then it is the school board's job to make the final determination. I think. Then if we're not happy with the result, we can try to vote them out at the next election.

 

how did they establish their own understanding of community standards? how would i know? i'd assume, but it would only be assumption, that they ran on issues about which they had a similar conservative viewpoint, and therefore came to the conclusion that they were elected to express it.

 

you got me right. and i agree that if the policy states that such actions are to be taken under a particular set of curcumstances, ie an open meeting, then that's the way it should be done.

 

So does that mean that if this action does not correspond with the platform they ran on then it falls back to individual opinion?

 

I agree.

Basically in essence, even if the books are pulled that we dislike there are the other kids influence and general influence on TV and work and pretty much everywhere you look.

In middle school my daughter had to read a book that was based on mafioso killings and profanity. I thought it was not necessary reading for her. I approached the principal to no avail. Because of this and a few other things I homeschooled her for 8th grade. My daughter actually got better grades but of course missed her friends and the social aspect of being in school and having friends.

After much thought and talking with her about how important it is to stay focused no matter what she encounters in school I let her start the year at WJHS with hopes her grades would stay as high and she would put her work first. She tried hard but you know what...I think the worst thing about the schools are a majority of the children around them who don't come from homes with parents who care or just don't care themselves.

I went to WJHS to visit my daughter unexpectedly, got a pass and waited for her in her next class and as I walked the hallway the bell rang and the halls filled with students. Granted its high school but was amazed at the students who immediately took advantage to make out right there as they walked and hugging, cursing, etc. I was amazed. I am old school I guess. This doesn't go well with me and I think my daughter was losing focus because of seeing all this around her. I feel she was influenced in behavior a bit as well.

My daughter is not an angel but not a devil either. She doesn't exhibit the extreme behavior I have witnessed other teens exude and I trust she was like this behind my back as well, but thank God no one has told me stuff other than minor issues and beleive me I ask around and encourage anyone to tell me if I should have valid concerns.

I truthfully believe that today it is extremely hard to shelter our kids or lead them. Its so hard and takes a lot of patience.

Johnston County does have pretty good schools. I will say that much. Hey look at the other circumstances in the US. Look at the teachers who have lowered their standards and dated kids, act like children, etc.

Anyway, I am homeschooling again. I think its better.

How can we protect the children of today from not only books but so much more. There is violence and sex in books, TV and peers. i am glad Johnston County will care more about their book selections but I think they also need to focus on the schools surroundings, no matter what grade level.

Did I go way off the subject? Sorry

 

no, it falls back to the average of individual opinion as expressed by an election. if they said they would act one way, let's say conservative, then did something liberal, the next step would be to hold them accountable by voting them out. unless they've broken the law, in which case i'm sure there is a statute that could be applied for removing them from office.

 

If this position holds any credence, does it not extend to the influencing of issues into my child’s consciousness that concern me? I have concerns that the tolerance of kids and parents is not as enlightened as they might believe. I have great concerns and misgivings about the need for a “moment of silence” in schools. I have a greater concern about the exposure of some religious issues as a result of their denominational outreach activities. I have difficulty with school or teacher sponsored religious activities at school, or as a result of anything school related.

Before I completely hijack this thread, I believe that the school superintendent and the other school board member VIOLATED the sunshine laws regarding school issues, to hide this one from the public. What they ostensibly called a closed meeting for, was in fact, not what happened. Had it been on an agenda to discuss in an open forum, with appropriate public commentary, etc, this would have been a different matter.

There is a due process for initiating, investigating, discussing, and deciding these types of issues. For whatever reasons, the process was not followed. If the public servants expect us to have any trust in them, then they must follow the law is written, not how they wish it to be.

I support the Four Oaks parents to choose for their own child what is acceptable. They had options available to them as alternatives on the reading list. I do NOT support their deciding for me what is or is not appropriate for my child to read. And for the single member and the superintendent to remove books from a tax supported library, school-wide, based on a single complaint speaks of a willingness to limit what literature etc we are exposed to without due process for a decision. Even worse, they demonstrate monumental ARROGANCE in presuming it to begin with.

Does removing the "exposure" of issues that you don't like extend to removing those students who are pregnant, because you don't want your daughters to think about sex? What about religious tolerance. Suppose "concerned" parents want all kids to learn the basis for Judeo-Christian-Islamic based monotheistic beliefs. Should those who profess another belief system, or no belief system at all be excluded from the schools?

I see your kids at school. I see how they behave, even what they do in between classes.I hear them talk about what activities in which they are apparently engaging. I wonder where the parenting that I read on display here, is in the lives of these kids, MOST of whom are decent kids trying to succeed, and needing without acknowledging, their parents guidance about these adult issues.

 

hat

all of your concerns are valid imho. as you stated, there is a system in place to evaluate concerns. it should be followed. all of the issues you have mentioned, though, are in my opinion "case by case" kind of issues. for example, is religious outreach a local schoolboard decision? or is a state one? a national one? i don't believe we can apply static logic to all sorts of situations. some remedies lie within the election process. some lie within the court system. some lie within the local school board's process.

i don't believe religion should be taught in public schools, and am actually equally uncomfortable with school or teacher sposored religious outreach programs. (surprised? or did you somehow also assume that i'd be pushing some fundamentalist christian bible-thumping crap such that i would take offense to your objections to religious outreach in school?) but that's not what we've been talking about, and you're using the slippery slope argument to distract from this issue.

the board was well within their rights to take the actions they did. it was the way they did it that seems to have been the problem. i believe, as apparently you also believe, that the process was subverted.

i'm not so sure that the outcome would have been much different had it been done above board, though. unless they revisit this specific issue, we may never know

 

DB,
I assumed nothing. I recall the old saying about assuming....and will readily admit that I am monumentally capable of being an azz, without trying. I do appreciate your stance as well.
Perhaps this will serve as a wake up call for elected bodies, that the citizens expect, and will not allow deviation from, following the rule of law in public matters.

 

Answer the questions, Grace.

If you want your child to read this book, you can go buy it for her. Why does she have to get it through the school?

Why do you think the book is only beneficial to your child if it is offered by the school?

 

Excellent

 

Then at the next election for the board Please everyone go out & vote. Stand up & get the old school board members outta here!!
Not many people go out & vote & we need everyone. Every vote counts & we as parents need to fight this fight & win by choosing the right fit for our genertation of children.

Please remember throughout this entire thread the board violated our rights as parents & our children. It is not so much the book or what the Four Oaks parents wanted. It is that the board LIED & held a meeting without public consensus(?) Please understand for those that don't the board lied about this what next?! This was a personal agenda for them & not a representation for our community as a whole

SO GO OUT & VOTE I think that this thread has gone ROUND & ROUND?

 

She doesn’t have to get it from the school but it and others should be available to students to check out of the library and use as a reference or for a class. Why doesn’t the family opposed to their child reading this particular book just have her read another book on the list and leave it at that? Why do they want to push their beliefs on my child? The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland, The Bell Jar, and, believe it or not, the American Heritage Dictionary of English Language have all been targeted for removal from school libraries. What is your opinion on these books? Should all parents go out and buy books for their children so that they can learn at school?

This is a quote from one Librarian:

Yes, parents have the right to monitor what their minor children read. They also have the responsibility to know what it is they're censoring. They do NOT have the right to censor what other people's children may read!

It is not this book! It is the way it was handled by our School Board and the decision to ban/censor books. Lots of books on the “banned” list have been passed down through the years in our family and my daughter has had them read to her and she has read them (like Huck Finn). I’ll be darned if we cannot have a dictionary in the library because some family decides one or more words are offensive. Grow up…these kids have heard, seen and done more than most parents would believe.

Lots of children are already exposed to the "nasty" real world BEFORE they get to school, now not only are the kids not getting reality help from home or from their parents, now the schools can't try to help the kids make sense out of it! So guess where their going now for answers!?!

Hope I answered all of your questions. If I did not please let me know and I will try to answer them when I can.

Grace

Hat6,
If my daughter was one of those in the halls at the high school kissing her boyfriend I would certainly like to know. She has told me that it happens all of the time and that she only agrees with a public display of hand holding at this age but when one is not in sight of the parent we hope they are doing the things we have taught them.

Sorry folks…off topic…but after reading his Post I just wanted to do a little “recon” to make sure all is well in Grace Land.

 

We need people to step up and run for offices such as the School Board, County Commissioners, Town Council, State Senate, etc. Please think about running, especially for the School Board. I think we all agree we need new blood but who among us will step up to run?

Not only do we need people to run for office but we need people to vote. We need people as Precinct Chairs, etc. It is great that we discuss and debate these issues but some need to go one step farther (not me, have alot on my plate at the moment).

Please think about it. It is not about being a Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Conservative or Liberal. It is about doing your part to make a difference in this sometimes cruel world.

Thanks,
Grace

 

CAUTION: For adults only

Disclaimer: Webbie, I'm doing this to prove a point. If you choose to ban me, I understand, but as a parent, I consider this to be an important point that needs to be made.

Fellow 4042ers: Below are excerpts from the book in question. Note the asterisks. This website (understandably) removes these words because they are inappropriate. I may get banned, because these excerpts are inappropriate. And they are just a few excerpts...there are many more just as lewd, violent and full of casual sexual content and references.

They are so inappropriate that they are removed from this forum....and Webbie may choose to ban me for posting them...yet you feel it's okay to have this in our school libraries where our children will be reading them?

http://www.citizensforqualityeducat...of_How_the_Garcia_Girls_Lost_Their_Accent.pdf

 

:shock: I've stayed out of this, because I don't know enough about it, but just :shock:

All I know is, that sort of thing was not in my school library. :shock: