Need IEP Help from some parents

IEP stuff

I heard about this conversation from a coworker. It surprised me and made me a little sad and frustrated that people were in such conflict, when I truly believe everyone has the kids' best interests in mind.

Parents are doing the best they know how for their kids. Teachers are doing their best for their students. Everyone is being pulled in 100 directions at once. No job is easy.

I know some of the people involved in this. In fact, I might know everyone involved. I feel uncomfortable saying too much because I don't want to be misinterpreted. I will try to do my best without causing waves.

Some educators that have been referred to in these links are being misrepresented. They have many attributes that are outstanding. You would absolutely not believe all they do for their students in addition to their personal trials. I think that applies to most of us, however, these educators also have the responsibility of their students' behaviors, successes or failures and a lawsuit hanging over them if they do something wrong. Some would think that doing something wrong would be intentionally trying to do harm. It could simply be a small paperwork error that could be found when attorneys are trying to establish fault. It is really a lot of stress to be under constantly.

Most educators have to deal with physical threats and violence as well. Those that are being spoken of do. Most of us wouldn't do well in an environment where we had to nurture people who threatened to kill us weekly. However, they do it. They try their best to make every day a fresh one and forget about the previous day's challenges.

It takes a tough person to be a teacher. Students, parents and adminstration all coming down hard. There is no room for mistakes. Plus, not every parent is going to agree with how a child should be taught.

The administration has a lot to deal with as well. They are to uphold what is required legally before they can place a child in a more restrictive environment. It is the law. They need evidence that the child needs that setting. As for the planning period issue, it is simple logistics. It is required by law that the special educator and a regular educator be at the meeting. It is very tough to cover those classes if it is not during a planning time. Other teachers have sicknesses, family emergencies, medical emergencies and so forth that TA's and teachers on planning have to cover for daily. Planning or after school just works a whole lot better.

As for the workdays, the teachers are required to be in training most of the time. IT IS MANDATORY. There is no wiggle room. They will get written up in their permanant file if they do not attend. They can't get out of it because their child is sick or because a parent wants to meet. Their hands are tied. Their other non-teaching time is spent on EC paperwork, grading, scheduled meetings, EC paperwork, disclipline problems, planning for 4 separate lessons for 3 different grade levels, and oh, did I mention EC paperwork?

I hope that your issue gets straightened out. I'm sorry to hear that he wasn't successful. He is a good kid. You will get it figured out. Please try not to be so hard on the educators though. You have a lot of blessings and a lot of challenges yourself. Please try to understand that they do as well. Teaching is another form of parenting. Just a form we have less control over and where everyone is watching and judging. Teachers do their best, but in the end, they aren't perfect. They love their students. They want them to succeed. They wouldn't be there otherwise. Sometimes the harsh words from parents, administration and "the little angels" really start to get a person down. Please keep in mind that we are all people, with flaws, who love children and are trying to do our best for them. ---The very ones that you are reprimanding are the ones who give their blood, sweat, and tears daily for your dear ones. It's true, whether you believe it or not.

Finally, about the IEP. Report cards have gone home. Get statements from teachers that prove your point, along with the grades, and provide a couple dates when you will be available at 3. Tuesday and Thursday are good days--no staff meetings, usually. Best of luck.

 

Thanks for all the advice. There is much, much more to this than I obviously will disclose on here. We do have a paper trail. There is proof. I'm not "out to get anyone." I just want my children in the right setting not only for them but for other students as well. I want administrators to listen. I recently found out from other parents some VERY, VERY disturbing news that is going on in a self-contained classroom. Yes, the parents will be meeting as a group as we feel they'll listen to groups in central office better than just individual parents. I have been contacted by other parents as well regarding their situations. It really is heartbreaking. I know the amount of EC paperwork is outrageous. Look at some of my previous answers regarding commending the teachers for the work they do. But, on the flip side, there are real problems that EC parents are trying to address. We are doing it peacefully, trying to make changes as a whole group.

I don't think I was being unreasonable asking to meet before or after school as that is when the IEP meetings typically take place. And the workday I suggested as I knew everyone would be there. BTW, there must not have been a mandatory meeting that day as that is the reason this teacher was not going to be there...the teacher had other plans. It's not that we asked for a meeting immediately. But over a month to get a meeting date is nuts. I requested a meeting for another child today. I got an answer...today w/ a date set...for a little over a week later. So, I know it CAN be done. I honestly think they were buying time to try to get something together as far as why the IEP wasn't being followed. I say this b/c as I got more active regarding this issue, the IEP is suddenly being followed. I have kept ALL papers from where it was not however. I simply want done what was agreed upon by the T-E-A-M. That is input from everyone and everyone came to the same conclusion.

I do have a meeting date now and will go to the meeting peacefully and as an adult. I hope the teachers/ administrators will do the same. I say this as last time this group met, rude remarks were made by administrators/ faces being made and just plain childish behavior. We actively participate in the meetings and feel if something is wrong, to correct it. One elementary school he went to convenietly left out of the meetings that they had lost him 3 times. This caused problems later on as for reasons why he needed such heavy supervision. At one IEP meeting, a teacher literally jumped across the table at me grabbing at me. That is the one & only time I wished I had tape recorded the meeting. I could not believe it as it was my very first IEP meeting. I thought other parents were exaggerating what happened at these meetings until I experienced it first hand. Now no, not all meetings go horrible. Not by a long shot. I do quite a few IEP meetings a year. Maybe 15 or so altogether, probably more. Majority go very well, especially at the elementary school level. Can I just add I LOVE the way the Westview Administrators have acted during these meetings and how they honestly care and contribute. They truly have the child's interest at heart. I know it is a new school but in my opinion(worth 2 cents), they are doing a great job so far. Yes, there were kinks but, we worked TOGETHER and solved the issues. Together is the key word here. If more administrators/ teachers listened and worked w/ the parents instead of against, I think we'd all be better off.

I thank everyone for their responses. The brave ones answer on here--LOL. I know this is a heated topic. I'm well aware. I don't want waves caused rather a solution to produce harmony amongst EC parents and educators. Should be a very interesting week. Not only am I going to my IEP meetings, but also a friend's. I can say that the EC parents are a tight knit group and do have a common interest...the kids. Hope the educators can come together WITH the parents to resolve issues. I have had teachers come up to me later in a school year and appologize for not listening to what I had to say or not believing me about my child earlier on. That, takes courage to do that. To admit to a parent that we are all only human in the end. those are the times though that I admire the teacher the most b/c it means we have then come together and are listening to each other. That is when it benefits the child the most.

Good luck to everyone on their upcoming IEP meetings. The advocacy center is a great resource. It has never worked out timing wise for them to be able to attend one of our meetings. But for other parents looking, it is wonderful. Have a relaxing weekend. School is out on Monday.

Take care,

Stephanie

 

Well I am glad that things are starting to look up for you. I would bring a tape recorder just in case

Ro

 

one more question

This is not meant to be sarcastic...I am honestly curious. You are not happy with at least one of the separate setting EC teachers. Why do you think you want your son in that setting? I understand you expressed an issue of safety for your son and others, but they honestly aren't the best behaved kids in those classes. If your concern is the way the separate setting teacher speaks (grammatically) that probably isn't something that is easily changed. It could be dialect, which takes a lot of attention to correct and attention isn't always being paid to grammar, I would suppose, when you are trying to prevent a child from getting out of control.

Do you think it would be better for your child to be with this teacher than to be in the resource setting?

(Again, typing is difficult because it comes across blunt and without inflection. I am not meaning anything negative. I'm wondering what the solution is.)

 

The WestView Staff is Awesome in all they do!!!

 

I know it is so hard to follow some of my thread as I've spoken of many different EC classes. I have all my kids in either resource or self-contained based on their needs. Each of their needs are so individual of course and I have to decipher w/ teacher's help, what is the best placement for each. At the middle school, there are actually two seperate EC classes based on the students' needs. One of those classes I know well as I have another child in that class. The other class would be where my son should go. Definitely NOT all EC classes have well-behaved students. I've been to quite a few classes and it depends upon the catergory of children in each class. And as w/ every class, there are some easy going students and some more difficult ones. My son is not difficult but rather needs constant redirection and supervision. We have tried max resource time since day one in this new grade level. Any child that is jumping from the elementary setting to the middle school setting will experience anxiety. When this is coupled w/ a disability and other issues, it just magnifies the difficulty in transitioning. Even the resource teacher has told me he/she can no longer teach him teh way he needs to be taught. The teacher said my child needs more one on one than he/she has the ability to give. I totally agree and again, happy that it is recognized by the teacher.

The hardest job of an EC parent is knowing what placement to put your child in. It is so gut wrenching at times. Sometimes, we are the only ones that see that potential in our child. Years ago (about 8 years ago) I stood in a hallway w/ the head of special ed from central office at the time. She looked at me and said be prepared XXXX will never pass a second grade level. I was crushed. Knew it couldn't be true. Well, today she's in middle school. No, not on grade level but well surpassing the expectations of special ed. BTW, my response to that at the time was "how do you know? You haven't even begun to teach her." We think long and hard before we change the placement of one of our children. Making sure their academic career comes first and foremost. Yes, sometimes modifications are used but if I feel they can do the work w/out them, I don't let them put it in the IEP. I want my children to succeed to the best of their ability.

Got to rambling again. This subject obviously is a hard one for me. Love my kids and honestly just want them to be able to succeed in school. I don't want someone to give up on them. I want them to be challenged and make it. Placement is key to this success. That and a great teacher. we learned that years ago. I had one teacher take my daughter from barely reading and writing to writing her own essays and reading almost on grade level. That teacher worked wonders and even got her OUT of EC that year!!! I was saddened when the teacher left the school system as EC teachers are hard to come by. I've talked to some personally after they left and they(some) felt that weren't getting cooperation from the admin. Felt their hands were tied when requesting testing for students or evals or help. This is the exact trap some of our kids fell into and lost valuable time in receiving help. It's sad as the teacher can recognize early when a child needs extra help such as resource or reading readiness. However, they have to really fail first before they an get the help. We ran inot this w/ our son in 1st grade. Recognized he just needed a little extra help to catch up. Couln't get it b/c he wasn't "failing enough" we were told. URghh. So now, 2nd grade, he now has to go to resource. He is further behind and had he recieved help when the teacher and I recognized it, he would be on grade level most likely. By year's end, he will most likely be out fo the EC program altogether.

I know everyone has a different opinion regarding the EC system. However, it is based on what they personally have experienced. I have experienced something different than person 'A.' And person 'A' has experience something different than person 'B' most likely. That's how we form our opinions. Makes sense. I have never hired a lawyer. I have never gone to the media. I have written the DPI. I do know folks who have hired lawyers or folks that have attempted to go to the media. To each their own. You have to do what is best for your situation. But our experiences will also predict how we will react to certain situations. Teachers on here will always take the defensive mode and with good intentions. EC parents will go on the offensive. Again, though, working together, we could all have amazing students and schools. I actually had a principal at an elementary school one year ask what I would change about a certain topic. It was refreshing knowing that a parent's opinion meant something to her.

Thanks for the support, thought provoking conversations, and willingness to speak out and/or listen.

Have a wonderful weekend.

Stephanie--mom to 7

 

The 31st was a protected workday for the teachers. They have the day to be protected away from meetings to get some work done (like report cards, planning,...) it is also a day that teachers can take off (they need a well deserved 'break'!!). If the teacher planned a day to her/himself...that is her/his right...not to be bashed on this website for taking a trip!

 

that workday

I took that day off (no pay) and ended up coming in for a few hours anyway to do IEP report cards. No rest for the weary.

 

I used to do this as well when I worked....take my days off to work. I was a manager for the longest time. Always at work, on salary, so not getting paid. It is the same w/ teachers I'm guessing. Like other jobs, work can not get done during alotted time, so we have to come in at other hours. Not fun, but I believe that many of us in the working world do this, not just teachers. I used to come in on weekends if my work was not done. I know teachers some times are able to do the work at home which must help somewhat. With my previous job, I had to go into the building physically in order to do the work. I know EC teachers have it much, much tougher. That I do know for a fact as I've seen the paperwork and actually asked in detail what was involved. A teacher one year gave me a detailed description of what all she has to do. Gave me a greater appreciation for what she does as an EC teacher.

I"m not angry the teacher wanted a day off. That's NOT it folks. I'm just ticked that it took this long to get a meeting together when it only took Westview the SAME day to organize it! I was giving the teacher options simply, not taking their day away. I actually thought it would be EASIER for them on a workday as they all would be there. That's the only reason I suggested it. And I'm sorry, but saying we can make it anytime before school or anytime after 3pm on ANY day of the week is more than fair.

Enough said. It's a hot topic for sure. And again, I haven't had trouble w/ IEP meetings at Westview. So why the discrepency w/ CMS? Bottom line, we now have a meeting, we're going and hopefully be able to finally get my son placed where he deserves to be. And yes, he DID meet the qualifications earlier at the last meeting.

Maybe what would be BEST for all and that hasn't been tried yet is a local meeting w/ ALL EC parents and ALL EC teachers. Just getting together, brainstorming and seeing what they can do for each other. I'm sure there are ways that EC parents could help EC teachers and vice versa. I know there are advocacy groups and parent support groups. I do believe it is time for a change as I"m sick of it always feeling like an us against them situation. It really shouldn't be that way. We should not have to always go to a meeting having to defend ourselves. So, any of you teachers(I know there has to be some on here) up for a meeting of the minds w/ EC parents? I'm serious. Write me privately and we could organize this together. EC parents w/ EC teachers sitting down and discussing how we can help each other and better serve our children. Please feel free to send me a pm and I would be more than happy to work w/ some other EC teachers at getting folks together. I knwo plenty of EC parents that's for sure. Many would be willing to do this. The EC parents already meet monthly. What do you all seriously think of this idea? Not kidding. I think we should get together. Casual meeting. No paper, no tape recorders, nothing "on the record" and just talking. Please email me and we can try to get this organized. I have 3 upcoming IEP meetings but am always willing to speak w/ others.

Enjoy the rest of the weekend. Kids are out on Monday. Yikes! Course here, we try to do some activities here anyway. It's Thanksgiving soon so most likely some history on that and a project for MOnday. Can't say I can do a teacher's job. But I can say I will help the teachers any way I can. Used to volunteer in some schools. Can't do that now as they won't let the younger sibs in. Understand that rule. Limited now in ways that I can help. But when the teachers say read to your kids, I do. Work on this subject, I do.

Could we possibly set up a secure forum for teachers/ parents to communicate? Would that help? NOt to bash each other. --and yes, I have heard teachers bash some parents as well. Won't give names, won't give positions, but do know it happens as well. We are all human. Teachers get fustrated w/ parents just as easily as parents can get fustrated w/ teachers. So, a meeting I think would be good for us all to sort out some JOhnston County issues w/in the schools. Together, we can really make our children succeed and later on, the county itself. If we make it so the children can reach their fullest potential, think about the return that would have on the community in a few years?

Got to go. Kids need something to do--LOL.

Thanks for listening.

Stephanie--mom to 7

 

Abdulina, your concern for your children is admirable. Some parents just have the "it's the school's problem during school hours" attitude and don't pay attention to what's happening with their own children. Your desire to ensure the best educational placement is what good parents do. I commend you on how involved you are since that is not always the "norm" these days.

With regards to the difficulty in setting up the meeting, though, please consider the following:

Middle school teachers work from 7-3. From 7-7:20 (when students enter classrooms) is not enough time for a IEP meeting. (They usually take around an hour as I am sure you know well.) The teacher cannot have a meeting run late and interfere with homeroom because an entire classroom is then unsupervised...remember the only TAs in middle schools are in the self-contained resource settings. Elementary schools have many TAs who can cover a teacher's class. If the teacher has his/her own children, meeting before 7 is not an option due to child care issues. (When my children were in early morning care at CES, the starting time was 7am. Teachers were allowed to drop off 3 minutes early and hustle over to the middle school. I could never have a before school meeting due to this.)

Meeting during school hours, other than the teacher's planning time, involves getting another teacher to cover for the class. This teacher could be unfamiliar with the subject/unit of study and unable to answer questions. (I had an interesting time covering a class studying geometry...ninth grade was a LONG time ago, and I did not remember the concepts, much less know how to help the students.) Plus, other teachers may have conferences scheduled during the time they are needed to cover. This problem doesn't exist at West View, or any other elementary school, due to the ability to have TAs cover the class.

After 3 could interfere with any after-school activities the teacher is in charge of (coaching, clubs, tutoring, after school detentions, faculty/grade level/departmental/committee meetings, etc). Once again, a group of middle school students could be left unsupervised. Teachers with children can also run into the child care issue here...if their child is dropped off at the school from the elementary school at 3:20, there is no one to watch that child while the teacher is in a meeting.

IEP meetings are very important to all involved. It helps the child, helps the parent to know the child's needs are being met, and helps the teacher know what to do to meet those needs. However, a teacher has a planning period for working on lesson plans, planning assessments, AND holding conferences. It is inconvenient to miss work, I know, but that probably would have been the most efficient way of holding this meeting quickly.

 

My husband has had to miss work for numerous IEP meetings during the day. We have done that before. Due to recent medical events...5 hospital admissions, 4 major surgeries, etc., he can NOT miss again. We BOTH have to attend this meeting. There is no one person attending this one as we've done before. This one is too important and too many things will be discussed. Everyone has to make sacrifices in regards to meetings. Parents AND teachers. We all have obligations. I do know of families that could not leave work for a meeting. The schools actually had to do a conference call during woork b/c that is the only time the parent could meet. I know of meetings that have taken place at night. A planning period is NOT enough time for our IEP meeting. this is another reason I knew we could not do it then. The last IEP meeting we had a few weeks ago was 3 hours long. Did not expect it to be that long but it was. Again, this is also what we were taking into consideratino when planning this meeting. If it ran over, then they would have to search for someone to watch the class, etc. We dont' want to take away from other students. That's not fair. So the best time to do this is before or after school.

I appreciate all the explanations All Children First. All our good reasons for sure. This wasn't me tryign to get only one meeting time on one particuliar day of the week. I know of friends who've had lawyers arrange a day for the IEP and the schools complied completely. It's hard to get a gathering of the minds, I do know that. There was also more to this story though than I posted. Other reasons involved.

I still think the best way to serve the EC community is for the EC parents and teachers to meet and discuss different issues in a non-threatening manor. Casual, no paperwork, no administration, just straight talk. I'm still very open to starting this. Just shoot me an email. Your name, user id, etc. would never be posted. No teachers named, none of that. We could all think of a meeting place. I know many EC parents who would love to ask questions. By doing this, maybe we could all eliminate some of the basic questions we have during IEP meetings. Who knows, we could start a trend nationwide!

I'm usually not on the computer this much. So probably won't be checking for a few days. But if you email, I will get back to you and we will start a group. Good luck to both parents AND teachers alike on their IEP meetings.

stephanie--mom to 7

 

JCS has a new position this year called Parent Involvement Coordinator. I am truly hoping this will be of great benefit to everyone. When report cards went out last week, all EC parents were supposed to receive a survey from this person to be returned to school. Please complete the survey so she will know what parents need and want as far as involvement goes. I was impressed when I read about the position and am hoping it will live up to my expectations. I am not in this position, just very excited we have it!

 

While that is welcomed, please don't be offended if the school tapes as well. They are required to do so.

 

That would be fine as they should have something to back them up if something were to go down.


P.S. How are you holding up? Haven't seen ya around

 

Filled out the survey and hope this does happen and can make a difference. Added a few things to it as it asked for other topics to be discussed as well. I can only hope other parents will fill it out. I know not all parent involvement is what it's cracked up to be.

As for the tape recorder, we've never done it before. I did not know that the school's required to tape as we've never been tape recorder before. That is news to me. Hey, you learn something new on this board everyday!

One thing we've asked them to change at every meeting, is those stupid pick copies. I think we'll have to tell central office as there is nothing individual schools can do. The carbon copies they give to parents fade w/in a couple weeks and you can not read what was written on them. i.e. no proof of the meeting even happening...yikes! It's a little better now as most of them they are doing on overhead so you get a cleaner copy to read.

Thanks for all the tips. Keep them coming. I do hope that parent coordinator position will go over well. Did not know exactly what it was. Heard about it but did not hear too much of what it entailed. Good to hear though.

Take care,

Stephanie--mom to 7

 

They will tape if you tape. It is so easy to edit a recording they want their own copy should a tape be submitted during due process.

You should begin to see your school moving to a system where all the IEP forms are completed on a computer then you get a copy printed. The system they are beginning to use allows school systems across the state quick access to the IEP info. should you move and change schools.

 

The school is only required to record if the parent does...not every meeting. Another tip is to try and photocopy the pink copies right after the meeting and darken the machine. You are also welcomed to ask the school to make you a photocopy of the white copy. I'm sure they wouldn't mind complying. Also, since the IEP's have been moved to the computer, this may cut down on the triplicate problems.

 

I am staying busier than ever! I don't get "out" much! Thanks for asking!

 

IEP

Not sure if taping a conversation at a meeting is legal unless they tell you up front about it

If they don't they can't use it in a court setting.

Twitch

 

First and foremost I was part of several school systems administration. I have first hand experience. Do you?