You can't grow grain is big quantities or bring it to market without fuel. The amount of fuel it takes to convert grain into fuel is almost as much as you get out of it. Oil has a much higher demand than grain. We pay farmers not to grow it in some cases.
But that was exactly what I was doing comparing the price of a barrel of oil beiing imported to the cost of what a "barrel" of grain is being exported for. I was doing the actual math showing equal volumes of products. And while gold is part of the futures market as well, there are alot of governments through out the world that actually control the flow of gold to maintain the high prices. And if the governments were to release their strangle hold on gold and flood the market with it, the price would drop through the floor. Craig
As I said in a later post, my comments about converting grain were never directed towards converting it into a viable biofuel, especially in the case of corn. There are too many other viable conversions that have so much better yield, and are alot less costly. Craig
Of course that assumes that everything is equally useful, that there is enough of that material in existence to do what you wish, and that the effort to get a barrel of gold be the same as the effort to grow a barrel of grain.
Problem is far beyond expensive oil Yes, we need to reduce our consumption, our reliance on foreign oil and find alternative sources. No question to any of these what so ever. We need to start now and stop talking and have some action. I do however notice quite often that people that complain about gas prices are driving vehicles that are 20,000 + in value, have larger homes than they need and lots of other things like IPOD's, Wii's, X-Box III's, etc, etc. If you eliminate going out to dinner once a week, you can probably recover what has been lost due to the increase for gas prices. This is not the case for everyone, but, we do need to make sacrafices (selling something you don't need, reducing discretionary spending) when times call for them. We have had to do the same. This is not a personal attack on anyone rather perhaps some guidance to anyone out there that is feeling the crunch but not changed any of their spending behaviors to offset.
So why should I have to eliminate something I enjoy? The price of gas is driven by speclative futures market analiysts (to an extent based on information from oil producing countries). Based on that train of thought and what Hught and I have been discussing here (comparing gold to grain/oil)...if they stop building computers and electronics then the price of both oil (for plastics) as well as the price of gold (used in electronics) as there will not be the need for such a large volume of eletronic items (sush as tv's, cell phones, etc.) Craig
Honestly I believe that everything we have discussed here so far is equally useful, though some not as cheaply to convert as others. Craig
Exactly. Who are these people and what are they doing in America? This has not been the first time somebody here has said "Oh, just give up your SUV/truck/or something else you love or worked hard for or earned, or whatever" Yeah - let's just roll over and not even request some grease, eh? Duh, okay...
How about the "enough of that material in existence" part, if something is relatively rare or is being depleted to the point where you can see the "writing on the wall", I would think that it would be more valuable.
But the point with oil is speculative as to how much is there, left to use, etc. The same hold true with gold as well. We know where to find and how to get it, but how much is in a particular vein to recover is speculative. Hence the reason the futures market has driven the price of oil to where it is now. Craig
What are you? Some kind of Socialist???? Just kidding, I agree that maybe a little bit more oversight is needed, but isn't this Capitalism? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculation
I must have missed the link backing that 60 years up. Would you please repost it? My biggest hope is that someone smarter than me can figure this out soon because I don't have a clue as to what to do other than conserve. My next biggest hope is exactly your statement above! Don’t you remember Chernobyl in the Ukraine? The long term effects of that are still happening. What will we give up for future generations? I have been near that area in the Ukraine and I will tell you and everyone that is not what we want. Sure, it was built way back but we still don’t have secure Nuclear Plants in America. Generations have passed in the Ukraine and the soil, food, air, water and people are still suffering. Children are still born with disabilities to parents with disabilities. Not anything we want to play around with. http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/chernobyl/inf07.html Don't get me started on Three Mile Island here in the U.S. Certainly not like Chernobyl but bad. I do agree that we need to get started as soon as possible but we need a plan first. That plan, in my mind, should include long term needs and conservation. Sherry
A very different type of reactor, Chernobyl was a graphite type reactor which obviously is not very safe.
Oh, okay. See how much I know about these different ones. What is the difference in the two? I could probably look it up quickly but if you understand it and can explain it would sink in better. Seeing some of that destruction has really left a mark on me. Sherry
This argument is like telling your kid that a college degree will take 4 years to get so it won't help now so don't bother.
There arre many different types, the Soviet Union reactors are known for their lack of safety Here is a general link that should go into the different types http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_reactor And here is one for Sharon Harris http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shearon_Harris_nuclear_power_plant
God forbid that we make small sacrifices for the betterment of the country/society. Our grandparents would be ashamed to see the excesssiveness and glutony of today in the face of a daunting problem.
That is where you are wrong, it is not for the betterment of anything except for somebody's portfolio and pocket. There is no shortage, there is no crisis. And yes I DID make sacrifices I should not have had to make... I sold a Dodge Durango last fall because I could not afford to go anywhere in it. Now I drive a minivan. I only had two more years to pay on that truck, I loved that damn thing! And what about life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? I have to sacrifice my constitutional rights too? I did. And I still am. Even now with the better gas mileage, I spend at LEAST one day a week dragging my 2 children all over God's Creation to run errands, so I can make it all in one trip and save money on gas. I pack snacks, lunch sometimes, and diapers, and wipes, and clothes. We get home and they are tired, cranky, and wound up - they missed nap. I refer to those days as "Hell Day". What do you call it? A small sacrifice? My dream car, gone and 2 days a week gallavanting around town with Satan's Daughters? :lol: I get tired just thinking about those days.
