Didn’t we cover this already? Under the first amendment and The Equal Access Act, student religious activities are accorded the same access to public school facilities as are student secular activities. These noncurriculum-related student groups include groups like Chess Club, Beta Club, Robotics Club, Camera Club, Music Clubs, Key Club, Su do ku club, Debate groups, future business leaders club, political groups, FFA, scouts AND religious groups. I respect your opinion, but it appears there is a federal law that protects the rights of religious groups to put up posters and even broadcast announcements in public schools.[/quote] Funny, I attended school elsewhere - not in North Carolina and I never, ever saw, nor even heard of any religious student groups in school. We all attended religious prayer groups and/or instruction on property other then the school. Holidays were celebrated, but they included ALL holidays. Christmas music was not played in the halls because it may be offensive to Muslim, Jewish or other non christian groups. WE were taught to respect other faiths. My Kiddo has been harassed and told that she was going to he11 because she was not a saved Baptist. she has been told that she is not a christian and is nothing more then a heathen. Mind you we are of a christian sect - but it isn't the popular version. Same Bible, Same ideals - just a different way of giving glory. My daughter attended and FCA meeting ONCE to see what it was about. She was told that only those who have been saved will go to heaven. It confused her and angered her and I. Students should never have to hear how the are going to burn because of a difference in Christian sects. It's a sign of bias that preachers across the land seem to push. I feel as though it is a shame and terribly wrong to condem those who believe different than you or I. Prayer in schools in fine.Religious conversation is fine. REligious meeting groups advertising at the schools is not. My group or anyone elses. Word on mouth is fine. Not on the loudspeakers. Any posters give the thought that it is a school sponsored activity. THe chess club, drama club, et al ARE school sponsored and non secular. The FCA and other groups are not school sponsored. THey are sponsored by whom? A local church or who? THen go meet there and enjoy!!
I just wanted to say that last week while at my son's school there were posters up about this event (That the kids had made themselves). I think if a child post's it and is that excited to be involved then GO FOR IT> It wasn't mandatory for anyone to attend. The children invited each other. The church didn't go in there and advertise. Cleo, how do you feel about the pledge of allgiance, are you against that? It does have the word "God" in it. :roll: MY OPINION.
http://www.wral.com/news/3280409/detail.html Good thing Clayton is a long ways away from Cleveland http://www.wral.com/news/3623740/detail.html You cannot get more rural than Coats. But then again Cleveland is not actually a city so we are safe. Gangs are a reality. Cleveland is not immune. I also drive through Garner and Raleigh and whatever is there can, will, or has come this way. Again with growth come problems.
Peppercorns, sorry that your child was told something like that about going to "he11". But, please don't let that make you think ALL Christians are that forward. There are ways for Christians to share the faith without scaring people. That is NOT the way. Sharing faith of salvation should be in a non-threatening way. As far as WHAT a preacher preaches, he or she is not to preach "what people want to hear" or preach something a certain way to fit different people's feelings. I'm sorry to say that, but it's true. If Christians went around telling people what people want to hear, they aren't doing what they were taught and will get a might bit confused themselves. Make no mistake, no one should scare or push anyone. But neither should they compromise THEIR beliefs as not to offend anyone. There is a way to do things, some can do it easily and to others it comes harder. I kind of see this as some people not liking the Christian religion period and no matter what a Christian says, it won't be right. And some people don't mind saying it either. But that's ok.........See some Christians can come across as "condemning". That is very true. BUT not all. In fact, if someone is feeling like a "message" is directed at them, that's called "conviction", not condemnation. There's a difference. Conviction is where God points out things in your life to you that are not right with Him and is trying to help you overcome it. No, Christians are not God. But God works through people to maybe give you a word or a message that causes you to feel "conviction" so you will allow God to work it out with you. So, before you say you feel like all Christians do is condemn people, you better make sure it's not YOU feeling "conviction". As a Christian, I am bringing up my kids as Christian and the LAST thing I would ever do or have my kids to do is to force their beliefs on anyone or scare anyone. But if an opportunity arises for them or me to share our faith, I will and will encourage my kids to do the same. I may have rambled a good bit, but I just feel like some people these days allow one bad experience with Christianity take the religion WAY out of proportion. There's good and bad in ALL faiths and people. We need to learn to look deeper not let "One bad apple spoil the whole bunch.." ooooo......Now I got the Jackson Five singin' in my head....AAAHHHHH :lol:
Amen from the choir Blessed. There are those that like to lump the good and the bad together when it comes to Christians. The Pledge and God. There is a can of worms that a couple on here will jump all over. God is every where. You cannot totally remove him no matter how hard you try.
My point is that my family IS christian but a different sect or group then the more popular " be saved, or be doomed" variety, (for lack of a better word). I do not ask anyone to compromise their own faith but, merely to respect the rights of other to worship as they see fit. I can not and do not think that all Christians are that way, because I too am a Christian. I have taught my child respect for all religions, even if I do think they may be 'wrong". Sharing is fine but condeming is where I draw a line. Only God can judge. Judge not lest you too shall be judged - I think it says somewhere. Our Faith in God is all the same, just our modes of practicing that faith is different. Kiddo and I have recently begun to attend a very country church and we do not always here what we want to. No one ever does. but to say in a social setting, (not church) that you will burn because you do not pray or believe as I do is wrong.
Oh lord I need to stop telling my hubby he's going straight to he!! for just being a mean arse! :lol: Because my tot remembers everything!!
I'm not against it at all. Just asking a question, and no - we recite the Pledge of Allegiance around here. We believe in God, just like you believe in perpetrating to be somebody else. :roll: ETA I'm not "offended", and neither was my son. I *do* know other people who would have found it very uncomfortable, but they are very liberal and gnostic. Me? I was just making conversation, I really hadn't come across anything like this in my years of schooling. My son came home and told me about it, and it piqued my curiosity. I remember a group that used to meet in the cafeteria before the first bell rang every morning, I don't remember any posters advertising it - but you knew who they were and why they were there. Like Clipper Girl, said - look at all the rights kids have in schools nowadays. They don't have be secret and feel persecuted (even from a simple question on a message board :roll: ). They can put up posters, organize events, and drop God-Bombs. Yay America!!
My family too has experienced religious bigotry. My family too is of a denomination that is not prevalent in this part of the country. I too have been told I am going to hell for my beliefs and as a teenager was even refused entry into the home of a friend for my faith. So, what did I do? I got educated about other faiths so I could understand their belief system, motivation and “speak”. This enabled me to compare our faiths to find similarities and rebuke the differences. These days I’m trying to learn more about the Muslim faith so I can try to get my head around why Radical Muslims hate us so much. IF this is the right approach, how do we teach youth about different religions? The first place I was exposed to courses on different faiths was at a NC state university where religion courses are offered by professors who are faculty members within a Religion Department. They actually teach the basics about many different faiths and denominations without trying to persuade students to accept any one as his/her own. My faith was not shaken by learning about other religions, it was strengthened. We can’t count on the public schools to teach our children about various religions and our home churches sure aren’t in favor of educating us too much about other faiths. So, the responsibility is back on us as parents to educate ourselves. The way I see it is get angry or get educated. Peppercorns, I understand your position on the rights of religious groups to meet and advertise events at school and before yesterday I really did not know enough or care enough to take a position one way or another. Do an Internet Search on “The Equal Access Act” and you will find that the clubs you quoted “chess club, drama club, et all” are classified by law as “noncurriculum-related” groups. (Unlike the Science club, French club, etc. that would be classified as “curriculum-related”). Like it or not, agree with it or not, Religious groups are also classified as “noncurriculum-related” groups and have the same rights to school access (PA system, bulletin board, etc.) as do the other noncurriculum clubs. Back to the beginning….The original purpose of my post was to make our community aware of a non-denominational world wide event designed to bring young people of all faiths together, at a flag pole, in front of their school, one day this year, to pray, together, for their school, community and nation. My hope was that some of you would support and encourage the young people you know to take the time on Wednesday morning to crawl out of bed a few minutes early and make an effort to get to school in time to be still for 5 minutes of quiet prayer with classmates. It was not my intent to start a debate about religious groups’ rights in public schools. Though the discussion has been very interesting, and I personally now know much more about student rights, I do not want to lose the original intent of the post, which was to make you aware of the event, in hopes that you will choose to support it. The good news is that as U.S. citizens we have the freedom to make our own decisions about whether we will support, condemn, undermine or disregard these types of events. I’ll be saying thanks for this freedom when I See You At The Pole.
Such as? Teach them to stay out of trouble and give them opportunities for positive and productive activities? Not get pregnant? Teach them to honor and respect their parents and other authority figures? Teach them about charity and helping others? God forbid...that would be horrible. How many kids have been killed by that drug? How many have been driven to drop out of school or use illegal substances by that "drug"? How many kids are turned onto early sexual activity by the activities and teaching of faith? For the life of me, I can't understand why any one would feel threatened by nothing more than an invitation being made to kids, for something that is positive. A choice for them and their parents to make. If it's not the religion you are interested in, get your religion to schedule their own event and put up an invitation. Geesh, people. :roll: Seems to me that kids had a lot more positive outcomes in years past, when they were regularly involved in some type of faith-based activities. Why anyone would fear that is beyond me. To offer an open invitation is not an attempt to control anyone. Everyone is invited to take up that invitation or ignore it. To demand that no invitations be made is an attempt to control everyone. Everyone is denied the opportunity to CHOOSE whether or not they want to take up the invitations that would have been offered. Sure...it's okay to allow kids to simulate sex on the dance floor at school dances. But heaven forbid they be exposed to an invitation to add something productive and positive to their lives such as faith.
Ken...if you truly have any doubts about gang activity locally, I suggest you contact your local police and ask them about it. There is gang activity locally. It's in Knightdale, Garner, Clayton...and it's even in Cary. Denial of the problem is the worst that can happen. Ask Durham. Those people (including and especially the parents of the gang members) denied it for a long time, and the next thing you know...it's on their front porch. And those parents are STILL denying it...stupidly. There are parents in Durham that sit there during an interview and deny that their kid was involved in a gang. They talk about what a good boy he was. And the reason they are being interviewed is because their kid was killed in a gang-related shooting.
Why are they uncomfortable? Why do they feel offended? I don't like football, but I'm not offended when it's advertised on television. I am deathly allergic to grapes...but I'm not offended when I see them out in the open at the grocery store. I am not Jewish, but I didn't feel the least bit offended when the kids in my daughter's math class brought home little wooden dradles they used in math games. I don't believe in putting little girls into beauty pagents, but that doesn't mean I'm offended when they are held. To be offended is to feel hurt feelings or deep resentment. How on earth does the mention of something some people believe in...but that you happen not to...cause that type of reaction? Are these people afraid they will be tempted to join in and won't be able to stop themselves? Are they afraid of being put to sleep and somehow being indoctrinated beyond their control? Are they afraid that being around prayer will make they themselves pray uncontrollably? What? I don't get it. I believe it's nothing more than a control issue. This country was a lot better off before people mistakenly started to believe that they have a right to not be offended. Fact is, no one has that right. Everyone has the right to say NO, to turn away, to rebut with their own display....but no one has a right to go through life not being offended.
And that can't be done without bringing my religion or yours into it? Probably more than you or I could ever count, even if we dedicated the rest of our lives to it. Do the parents have the option of controlling this indoctrination? We do, through our church and advertisements (paid), not through a public school. http://www.cynical-c.com/?p=5899#comments Fine, choose a more appropriate venue. May be you think it is fine for them to simulate sex, I don't. But then again I don't consider most religions productive and positive either.
See...you just made my point. In what way is a display of my belief that faith is a positive thing for kids, bringing my faith "into it"? Into what? If we are at a resturant and you order escargot - which I despise - and you eat it in front of me...are you bringing your preference for escargot into my decision on what I want to order? No...you are making your choice based on what is on the menu...and I will make my own choice based on whats on the menu. My choice is not bound by what you choose to order. In fact...what you choose to order has nothing to do with what I order. I am in no way bound to order escargot just because it's on the menu. What I DID say is that those are the things that faith teaches kids...and what's wrong with that. This "it offends me" BS is all about making up sh*t where there is none. Just as no one is insinuating by putting up posters inviting someone to a church activity...that anyone MUST go or MUST agree with it... ...no one insinuated that what one learns through faith, can't be learned anywhere else. But the fact is, faith-based teaching DOES instill those values, and what's wrong with that? And you base this on what? Of course they do. Just as I decide whether or not my child will go to a movie with friends, I as a parent have the control over whether or not my child attends a church function...as well as whether or not I want to go also and be involved so I can see what is involved and decide if I want to keep allowing them to go. If they are too old for me to say whether or not they can go, then they are old enough to make the decision about religion for themselves. Well, maybe you should consider invitations in public school if you want to invite people of that age. Where you choose to advertise depends on who your chosen audience is. If, however, you choose not to...doesn't mean that those who do are wrong. What you consider an "inappropriate" venue, I consider to be an appropriate venue. Why should your "belief" on an issue matter more than mine? The fact is...your belief on this issue encroaches on my belief on the issue...not the other way around, as you insinuate. If you get your way, I am refused my right to express my belief. The choice is taken away from me. If I get my way, you still have your choice not to express yours. And that's what is wrong with this picture. I don't think it is fine for them to simulate sex on the dance floor...but then again you knew that. I do consider most religions to be productive and positive.
Schools, Keep it in the home, church, or rented hall. You do go through life with blinders on don't you? Lets not even bother with the historical record and just deal with two current "In the news examples" such as some of the fundamentalist Madrasas (spelling) spewing forth suicide bombers or the sexual molestation of young girls in the fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints. Sorry, I don't buy it. In my opinion they are wrong. I would prefer not to subsidize something that is in my opinion possibly very harmful to my country. Pay your own way! You also knew better but choose to hang it out there. So whose opinion is right, regardless I don't want my tax dollars supporting something that I think is wrong in an inappropriate venue.
Why? Who is it hurting...and in what way? Those aren't a result of religion...they are a result of radicals acting under the guise of religion. They are no different than radicals of any type. And they also aren't typical. I think we both know that there is a difference between those who practice a religion that follows a set of beliefs...and those who take such beliefs and twist them into something they are not. Should we demonize all black interest groups because of the racist and violent acts of the New Black Panthers? Should we demonize all gun clubs because of the radical acts of militia men? Of course not...and most people know the difference between a group following a set of reasonable beliefs...and a group participating in twisted cultish acts. That's why it's important for parents to be involved in the decisions of whether or not their children should attend a church's activities. Why not? What do you feel is wrong about them? Excuse me...we must have a disconnect between us here. Who said anything about you paying for anything?!?!? We are talking about a poster on a wall. A poster that was paid for by the entity that is hosting the invitation. In what way is that costing you? Are you denying that kids are dancing this way at school dances? Are you denying that the schools are allowing this to occur? If so, I invite you to go to a school dance and see what is going on. It's enough to curl your hair. It doesn't matter whose opinion is right or wrong...opinions are neither right nor wrong. What matters is what resolution allows everyone's freedom to express religion to stand. Yours does not....mine does. The Constitution provides for freedom OF religion...not freedom FROM religion. You might want to consider that.
