Below market interest if paid back at all. Who do you suppose pays when the loan is defaulted? Ahhh you support the few welfare programs with which you agree just not all of them. So you would increase the welfare payments to those you support .... ok.
Okay Wayne...here we go...time to teach you about apples and oranges. I said one should not expect to keep their "perks" such as savings accounts, living where you want, etc...and should stop making excuses (such as lack of transportation) for not working... and should be willing to sacrifice, before getting welfare. You keep trying to put me in that category. Allow me to steer you in the right direction. I gave up the privacy of my own apartment and moved in with a family member. I gave up an resemblance of a life. I ate, breathed, and slept work and school. Those are called sacrifices. I was working and going to school....get it? All the hours in a day were used up. (I don't begrudge anyone replacing a 2nd job with education to help themselves better their earning opportunities...and I've made that clear.) It's all about effort. If you are working to better your earnings opportunities....job training, college, nursing school...then you aren't in the category of those who aren't working because transportation isn't convenient for them and they prefer to live where they want to. Remember, my plan offered free day care for those who were working or going to school to better their earning power. I needed assistance because it was necessary after I had expended all the options outside of WIC that I could. You mention that I would "justify" the use of welfare by the taxes I paid if and when I needed them. Yes. If and when I need them after expending all other possible options...which I had done. In regards to your question: "What would the limits be as in size of family, medical expenses, number of children in diapers, lack of childcare options, and the like"....what limits are you talking about? A man working two minimum-wage jobs could gross about $30,000 based on what I've seen being paid as minium wage...about $7.15 an hour. If the wife also works, that could be brought up to as much as $44,000 gross annually. That's more than many middle-class families bring in. Grandparents, friends, other family members help watch the kids. Is it a tough life? Sure. Is it doable...sure. They may have to downsize their living quarters or move to where the jobs are accessible by walking or bus. They may have to attain a taste for beans and rice for a while. They may have to give up cable and their cell phones. But it's doable. And remember...Being temporarily disabled is different from "I can't work because I don't have transportation convenient to my home." I bet you heard that from another bleeding-heart-tax-and-give-away-slightly-tinged-with-socialist-leanings-liberal. :wink:
What reeks of being obtuse and lazy is your posting without research first and making statements which are biased and incorrect. Then when your stand is opposed you expect someone to do the research for you. Also, debate does not entail providing proof, it entails disproof. It is the point and counterpoint of communication. I believe this is the point where “you” hang it up. Your blowing smoke up the wrong butt. In one of your statements prior to my post you insinuated there were no changes. Then when I showed you there were changes you dig deep for redemption and try to throw off responsibility by requesting my doing your research. Your ignorance is only superceded by your arrogance to place blame. And, on your comment for the "push" on the change, read the damn link! It specifically shows the “Sponsor” of the bill. And if you had bothered to check farther you would review the vote on the bill for extended proof on the supporting party. But, oh, I forgot … you expect others to do that for you. Next time just plead the truth, ignorance, and I’ll gladly give you a hand navigating your way to the facts. Don’t pull this “I’m smarter” crap and try to B/S your way to the facts. Post scripting the B/S and accentuating the want for knowledge will always get a hand from me.
Since you don't want to discuss the subject at hand Cleo I guess I will post one more thing to your stupid @ss remarks. Next time you see us in Food Lion or anywhere else are you gonna have the guts to come up to us and say what you are saying on here? Or do you feel safe behind your computer? You seem to love to put your little comments about others on here whether you know the story or not. Is it any of your business what goes on in other peoples lives? NO!
My thoughts on the subject: I think welfare could be a great system if it were used properly. I am not ashamed to admit that I've been there and done that, and when I felt I was able to survive without it (even though I was still eligible to receive it) I stopped. Medicaid, WIC, Food Stamps, it's all there for a reason. I do get angry when I see it being abused. Like the Mom who continues to have baby after baby after baby in order to keep health insurance, and get free food. I think at some point we should consider manditory sterilization, or cut off the benefits after so many children. The health department will GIVE you birth control pills if you're on assistance. And they'll give condoms to anyone who walks in and asks for them. The thing I'd like to point out is that there is no help for the "in-betweeners". You either have to be a woman and pregnant/have kids or over 65. What about the 58 year old, who can't work, who's had two strokes, whose meds alone cost $500 a month, that can't get any help? And don't scream disability. They have 180 days, thats 6 months, to make a determination of whether you are disabled and can receive SSI or disability benefits. And usually, most folks are declined automatically the 1st time. How are they supposed to get by? We definitley need some reform, I'm just not sure what the right way to do it is. Anyway, thats MHO....
I'd like to see the logistics of that. So, if I understand you (and you're not being sarcastic) anything that your taxes pay for, that's not a direct benefit to you personally is a waste of money?
I know the difference well, but it helps when you do not keep changeing the name of each to suit your position. You also said they should apply BEFORE they ran out of funds which to me seems to be an impossible request. Do not have any savings but get help before they are all gone .... I suppose something other than a tent made of cardboard is applicable in this situation. You make such grand sweeping statements based on narrow views like being able to move back home. Sure, being able to get to work should not be a problem you just say I want to be there and the magic takes you away. I think many of not all have made a sacrifice when all things are considered, but I try to look at the entire picture and weight things accordingly. You must have some personal feelings of guilt in that respect because I do not keep trying to put you anywhere. I have indicated I believe your position to be hypocritical and you have confirmed it. That is the extent of my involvement into your life. Good thing you had a family memeber that could take you in. Of course, your plan would force family members to do so would it not. Where did I say otherwise? You are the one stuck on that not I. Of course not, you would have to include yourself in the mix then. No, your plan offere help to those who were succeeding in the attempt to better themselves. There is a difference and it is clearly ignored. It is necessary in other cases as well, however it is plans like yours who prevent it from being accessed. What of those others who have paid their taxes and want the assistance but do not fit the criteria you laid out? The myopic view seems to prevent just that needed help. Well, remove one of those people from the mix and add a child in their place. The income drops and the expenses increase, especially if the child needs medication. That is the definition of changing family size, number of children, etc. As for your math, yes you can do that porviding you can find two jobs that can be so cooridinated, reliable transportation to both of them, and no need for assistance. Of course, if you had a trust fund that gave you $30,000.00 a year you could have the same effect. Agains assuming there are such free helps available, which is an assumption. In a small number of cases, yes it is doable. For all cases, not a chance it will be doable for them all. Which happens without funds by magic or what? As if they do not already eat both? Or more once the oversimplification is removed. Yes, but both are part of the discussion and you are ignoring most of the other areas outside of your personal bias. No, it was a biased, bigoted, abuser of logic who had the tables turned on them.
HELLO!! YOU told me all your business, Tammy!!! :? Yeah, I'll probably snicker and say something like "HeyWifebeater" or "Trailerpark". If I even recognize you. :roll: What are you going to do, beat me up? You wanna go out back by the delivery trucks and throw down? :lol: If you don't want your life discussed online, don't share the details of it with strangers in a PM. :roll:
^^^ That's the way I understood it to Clif! I've got to say (swallowing hard) I'm agreeing with You and Stinger about some of these self agenda posters! I'm also a law abiding citizen..and I have to pay for court appointed attorneys for criminals (because they can't afford it) your logic would mean that's a waste of money as well and they shouldn't get legal representation.
SB!!!!!! :shock: I do have to say I snickered at Clif's post.... I want to know the logistics on that baby's Daddy deal too! :lol:
Tammy & Mark... All I've got to say is Karma is a B#tch.... it will get you back for the terrible things you did to someone else. What you did is about the lowest thing you could do to someone with a family to take care of :twisted: :evil: Yes this is even worse than what Twitt did to Tangy! :twisted: :evil: Peppers...I'd be dancing around saying...I TOLD YOU SO on the wifebeater/cheater thing!
Good grief! I do a little work, and I come back and Tammy's account is deleted, and I missed everything!! Someone PM me and fill me in!!
