Ormly: I don't have a horse in this race and the only reason I am even saying anything is because Tit for the most part can be a whole bunch of bable but you my friend are talking out both sides of your mouth or butt... however you want to look at it... and this time Tit has actually has made some perfect sense. Yet here you have broken down Tit's post and either echoed what she said or turned around and "judged" just as you are saying she can't because she doesn't know... Why don't we all just say a prayer that God will guide us on the right path and that he will give us the guidance to influence people in a positive way instead of finding every and any way to beat down our brother. In his holy name. Amen.
You do not know either. That's why its called "Faith". I believe real reverence comes from within. Its not something that follows a certain set of rules for others to judge you by. Ecclesiastes 3:1 There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven: Matthew 23:27 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. Ormly, You should probably check yourself to make sure you are not a blind Pharisee.
How do you know that I don't? That in itself is a judgment call on your part, doncha think? Oh, I am quite sure I understand what you believe. I believe if you were indeed reverencing Him from your heart there would be a witness of Himself and an outcry from you against the irreverence that is there, wherever "there" is. Tell me, what do you believe the Levi priests of the OT would say to you if you made that remark to them? Did you ever read the account of their preparations before entering the most Holy place in the Tabernacle/Temple? I don't believe they would agree with you. Perhaps a fresh reading of God's instructions for entering His presence is in order for you. See Ezekiel 44 for starters. Can you honestly believe God would respond to any group of people who presumed on Him, who cheapened Him by doing things their way and assuming it was OK, attempting to bring Him down to their level, to be "people pleasing"? I don't think so. I have been in many of the churches here in Clayton/Garner. I leave before knowing what the message will be when I see how people are dressed, especially leadership, and leave even faster when I hear the "Rolling Stones" blaring from the platform. I know I am not going to hear more than Rock entertainment and man's reasoning about scriptures [if they even use scriptures] rather than an anointed message that should edify the congregration, building them up in a Holy Faith in the knowing of the Father in Jesus Christ. But then the congregation is a mixed bag isn't it and the worldly ones, must be appeased; not offended? Am I right, so far? Oh, I know what you mean. I'll bet you don't.
Hey - ready for the fits.... I do not need to be Batized again. I was baptized at birth. I received the Holy Spirit. It was mine to either accept or to turn away - it's called free will. I went trought many times of trial and have maintained by beliefs. I have no need to spout my christianity nor to shove my beliefs down another throat. I disagree with the concept of being "saved." People recall the day they were saved like it is a holiday. It still doesn't mean you are going to heaven. How you live you life and treat your fellow man is important. Condemnation of those around you and other religions isn't going to score you any points. What the quote -" For whoever believeth in me shall have ever lasting life?" and "For the eyes of the Lord are in the righteous and his ear ever attentive to their prayer...etc" i may attend a Baptist church, thought I am not Baptist and I will never become a member because I don't want to do the whole dunking thing. I have already been batized. Where I go to hear the Gospel don't matter in the least, as long as I am listening.
I have tried very hard not to contribute to this thread, but I can't help myself anymore. And exactly how should people be dressed? I don't remember anywhere in the Gospels that Jesus required a dress code. Jesus was more concerned with a person's heart than their clothing (unless they don't have any-in that case we are to clothe them). How do you know where someone's heart is if you don't even listen?
You don't "know" anything about God. All you have is faith, just like the rest of us. All those things are over now. We are no longer bound by the OT law. Romans 7:6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. Romans 3:21-24 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace... Your "process of becoming" a son of God sounds like you may be implying "works". The transformation that takes place is by grace, and grace alone. Ephesians 2:8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. When Jesus taught that you could judge a tree by its fruit, he was warning us to be careful who we listen to. This was not an invitaion to judge the salvation of others. In Matthew 7:1 he clearly tells us not to judge others. So if you're judging the leadership of C3 to decide if this is where YOU should go, that's fine. But to go further and say that no one else should go there and that their members are not really saved ...is wrong. Ormly, Here is a promise that you can take to your grave: Wearing a suit and tie and singing old hymns is not going to get you into heaven. You are, without a doubt, a blind pharisee putting stumbling blocks in the path of the unsaved. That pretty much says it all.
1. Do you give your best to the Lord on Sunday, if you attend church? 2. If the world comes in and feels at home, are you preaching Christ? 3. Did Jesus ever accomodate the world?
Ormly, I "get" what you're saying. Church is supposed to be about worship, not entertainment. We aren't supposed to be going to make US feel better, or so WE can have a good time, we're supposed to go to church to glorify and worship HIM, right? It seems that a lot churches these days have given in to entertaining people, at least partially, doesn't it? I think that is dangerous because it causes us to forget why we are there in the first place and church can become nothing more than a social club. However, there are some churches that are very legalistic about everything too, which can be just as bad. How, and where, should churches draw the line? :? I have said in the past, and I will continue to say... I believe the body of Christ is very sick at this time. And I don't think this illness will be cured until He comes and takes His bride home. I think the world is staring the Rapture and the Tribulation period full in the face, and Satan is doing everything in his power to cripple the body of Christ so he can deceive as many people as he can because he knows his time is short. JMO.
Speak for yourself. God is knowable. But then you aren't being taught such things, are you? I didn't think we were talking about the law but rather proper respect for God when coming into His House; His Sanctuary and calling upon His name and then expecting Him to hear and anwser our petitions. Is that your, what you call, church.....then the respect for Him should be there, shouldn't it? Indeed, they are "works of Grace" within one when one has a revelation of Jesus Christ. Do you have a revelation of Him that such things are happening in your heart that they might be evidenced from your life?..And would this be works from yourself or of Him, in your estimation that is ...that others might know the saving Grace of God? Are you not a preacher when that is an actuality from the one who is intimate with the Lord? Isn't that what the message of Jesus Christ is all about? Read John 17 before you reply. Do you know the Father well enough to make those distinctions? Do you know Him sufficient not to be deceived by the re-inventing of His Son to be something He never intended Him to be. True, however,1 Cor.2:15 "Spiritual people evaluate everything but are subject to no one's evaluation". You call me unfair yet can't support why you should say so. You see is someone coming against your personal views and you have no defense. That's troubling to you as it should be. You don't know whether I am right or wrong. I'm telling you I am right. Now, you have a responsibility to find out. First off, I have never been to C3. I have surmised it to be a "bubble gum" church because of the others like I have attended. My comments are of a general nature pertaining to any foot the fits the shoe.. Oh, I see. You have been put upon and persuaded to believe the old ways are out. I understand. We must shift with the culture even though the culture is like shifting sand. That's real insight, to be sure. What book did youread that out of. Brian MaClaren, Rick Warren, Bill Hybels?...Bubble Gum How you ever read this verse? Jer.6:16 (ASV) Thus saith Jehovah, Stand ye in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way; and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls: but they said, We will not walk therein. Only to them without vision; without revelation of Jesus Christ, is this true. They are thus made vulnerable and full of false appraising.
HE did not accomdate it but he went where the people were to preach to them. He never wore fancy clothes. He never chastised those who did not follow him - only shake his head and say that his Father would judge them in the end. HE went out among the people and did not hide in any one building. He taught by example. HE spread the message of love and tolerance. So why aren't we seeing all that here? And I'm really surprised no one has slammed me against the wall yet from my last post..wow er... gee.. thanks...guys and gals. I expected the worst and I was pleasantly surprised.
Yes, My Sister, this is exactly what we are to be about. The great commandment says this: Matthew 22:37-39 (KJV) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. If we could get it into our thinking that the first part of this commandment will give us the capacity to realize the second part we will turn the world upside down........in the way prescibed by God. The world is full of churches only proclaiming the second half ..... and calling it, Jesus.
Yes, I know. :-( I guess I'm guilty of putting the armor only partially on - which lets the attacks HURT! I know and understand this... so I try not to take what is said about me regarding my faith personally, but... How do you tell someone that you are not judging them, that you are truly extremely concerned about their eternal life... without making them feel that you are attacking them? When I try to express my concern over someone's soul, I am not attacking them. I am the worst of sinners... just because I'm forgiven doesn't mean I'm perfect. I'll never be perfect while I'm living in this fleshly body. I lived a nasty, sin filled life before I was born again (oh, the stories I could tell!) so I'm not judging people who don't know the Lord as Savior. But, it is SO hard to get that across on here... without being called a hypocrite who is judging others... that I finally just gave up trying. :-(
You can't help being accusatory when what you say, is. Though it is not personal FROM you it is nevertheless, received AS a personal attack. That's just the way it is when one is confronted with conviction in things of a Spiritual nature. I have been quite careful to word things in such a way that it is not a personal attack on anyone but to everyone who might be affected by the word of God in some way, even unknown to themselves. Defenses will vary depended upon knowledge of the word. So relax, get understanding, pray and then speak/write. Whosoever will, let him come
Awww, thank you Hugh. I don't remember anyone specifically. Anyway, I apologize to you if I've ever offended you in any way too. I've never meant to attack anyone on here, just love them with the truth. Sometimes though, the truth is tough.
Ormly, I can't respond to every point I'd like to. I don't have time to write a book and no one on here wants to read that much anyway, so here are only a few responses: Not yet He isn't. 1 Corinthians 13:12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. Well, is your idea of "proper respect" a law or not? If not, then no one is required to follow it so we don't need to discuss it. You gave the traditions of the Levi priests as an example, and that's what I referred to. There is no such thing as "works of grace". Grace is a one-time gift from God. It is given freely and immediately to all who ask. Nothing else. Its very simple. There is no "work". This is the kind of stumbling block I'm talking about. Thank God my salvation is not based upon evidence from my life. Its based upon evidence from my spirit, and only God can see that. If you choose to follow me I'll be your preacher for a few minutes, but my long-term role is that of a follower and student. I sure do. Therefore I'm not deceived by people who tell me I have to follow a certain dress code to be saved. To the contrary. I have no doubt there are many sincere Christians in the old style churches like the one I grew up in. But the old ways won't save you anymore than the new ways will damn you.
