If you are replying to my comment it is my daughter that feels that the teenagers there are brainwashed. She is entitled to her opinion. I don't understand why she thinks that, I am just glad in this day and age she will still attend church with her ol' mom. As for me I like our church. Were small and everyone knows everyone, and the preacher knows our names. twich
again you make assumptions about what others think and believe and know. your arrogance knows no bounds
I am convinced no one reads anything who argues from a self-preservation attitude; a self-protectionism stance. The ability to make distinctions concerning Jesus Christ and His Church, is totally absent in todays "cotton candy" church. Feeling good about oneself is the order of the day regardless who it is who helps them feel that way or the means by which it comes. If one feels good and the name of Jesus is slandered in the process, that too bad. Stick with it, rotten leadership will help you dull your senses. It just doesn't matter anylonger if error is preached forth to be embraced so long as at the end, one is left feeling good and one world-anti-Christ programs are advanced, all in the name of Miss Compassion and her side kick, "Felt Needs". Checkout this website: http://www.leadnet.org/about_ournews.asp. Follow some of the links like this one and see who is behind this deception: http://www.halftime.org/ Look for the name of Jesus Christ anywhere. Ask yourself what god it is they speak of. Ask yourself, did/was Jesus ever innovative in His preaching or did He just present Himself as the message to be embraced? Know that God never intends for us to be creative/innovative with His Word. He either leads and enables by the power of Himself or you are on your own; one is either burning oil or burning "wick". That is an absolute. I'm am interested in reading your comments and critigue of the websites. I hope unbiased opinions can be found in your replies.
I can agree with that in all types of discussions not just religion. This assumes, however, the other religions are wrong in their claim of being the correct religion, which is no more proved than any other purely faith based belief. It then boils down to culture and charisma, which seems to be the part you dislike in the conversion effort. Or could it be there is no singular focus in this attampt and allows the invdividual to insert their own belief into the assistance instead of trying to convert from one belief to another? Or it is Allah's or even Odin's will to some .... the only difference is the initial faith of the individual. There is always a bias in dealing with people, but a minimal bias can be achieved if one tries. However, I do not believe you want a truly unbiased reply as that would also be religion neutral and you already assume somewhat of a pro-religion, pro-Christian religion view on the sites even when they do not make such a distinction. That is just my opinion from what has been said, of course. To argue the number of angels which may dance upon the head of a pin has to presuppose the angels exist, so to must one presuppose the Christian view of Jesus is correct in this series of questions. Just as there are questions over the literal translation of the Bible, there too are questions concerning the three religions that sprang from this source. Even this presupposes one of these religions is correct instead of the vast number of other relgions there are around the world now and in the past.
Since Jesus Christ is at the "center" of my post as an attainable personal relationship, to be pursued by all who claim His name, my desire to speak of other "religions" is nil. Religion isn't a thing I am interested in. Aside from a humanist perspective, the website also do not allude to another religion. Can you stay on Him as the topic? Not that I am in disagreement with you concerning other Bible translations, however, is there any particular one/two you wish to take issue? I am sure that must be the reason for your not accepting exclusively, if at all, Jesus Christ as the only way to the Father?
Ormly, Will you please answer a few questions so I can have a clearer point of reference for your arguments. Otherwise I can't continue. Please answer "yes" or "no". 1. Do you believe the Bible is the only source of truth about God? 2. Do you believe in the Trinity? 3. Do you believe that salvation is a gift of grace from God by a one-time proclamation of your faith in Jesus ...and nothing else?
ABSOLUTELY! Your questions are well worded though #3 leaves alittle "bother' in me. Your using the words, "one-time proclamation" seems a bit weak. I rather see the proclamation as being, continual, passionate, as evidence of my allegiance to the Father as His was. Other than that, I couldn't agree more. I hope that helps mend something here.
JW, per our conversations from way back... you believe ^, GREAT! Now, have you received Him (John 1:12) yet? I sure hope so! Remember, it has to be more than just head knowledge, because even Satan himself believes in Jesus, the Word of God, etc. You have to accept the gift of salvation, not just believe in it. Not trying to be condescending in any way, just very hopeful for you! :-D http://www.christiananswers.net/gospel/gospel1.html
Then you also believe in works, which I believe is wrong. Our main disagreement seems to be that you don't believe "once saved, always saved" and I do. A few pages back you asked me if I believed people could just "live like hell" after they accept Jesus. Everyone lives like hell. You are no better with your one sin, than the worst murderer on death row. Without grace, you are both condemned. If you sincerely ask God for forgiveness I believe He grants it for all sins past, present, and future. He knows you can't go one day without committing another sin, so if He forgave you today, knowing He would condemn you again tomorrow, then your salvation would ultimately depend on your ability not to sin (your works) ...that wouldn't be much of a salvation plan would it? Billy Graham addresses the issue here: http://www.billygraham.org/MyAnswer_Article.asp?ArticleID=1917 Q: I'm in high school and I became a Christian two months ago. But I know God must be very angry at me now, because I've done something I know I shouldn't have done. Have I lost my salvation? Can I get it back, or is God too upset with me? — A.H. A: Dear A.H., No, you have not lost your salvation... (click the link to read the rest) I've heard this before, but is it Biblical? John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. I've never doubted my salvation. I just have doubts (that vary from time to time) about the extent to which God intervenes in current events. I hear people say that so-and-so was healed from cancer, but those things are usually pretty easy to attribute to other explainable causes, which makes their statements dishonest to me. I'd like to see someone who's been blind their entire life, just miraculously gain sight. Or a paraplegic who has no hope of recovery, just stand up and walk perfectly - the same as they were before the accident with no need of physical therapy. Or even better - a dead person brought back to life. I've never seen those things. Me and Thomas will be good friends in Heaven. :lol:
Distinctions, Josey. Make some. If you are going to argue then at least argue from knowledge. We aren't speaking of works FOR salvation but works AFTER salvation. "Faith without works is dead". Remember that one? Ergo, works are something that will COME FROM YOU as evidence of YOUR LOVE TO GOD, for His so great a salvation. If you believe that is wrong then you have much scripture to refute. .. and I don't believe you have enough in your scripture bank account to draw from. That's sad and makes you vulnerable to deception. You are depending on man's reasoning from varying doctrines. All believers are saved. Believers reveal their alligiance to the Father. All believers love the Father. All believers worship Him in the Beauty of His Holiness. All believers desire to be with Him. Believing simply means, By-living. Please speak only for yourself. Please stop using your opinion to label and bring everyone down to your level. One doesn't have to sin. One must seek to stop sinning. Need scripture for all that? Start with 1 John. That's quite a judgment call. Ar5e you prepared to back it up or are you simply quoting some preacher? If one is born again one is no longer a sinner but a saint. That's what the Bible says. Need scripture for that, also? Seems you need to get studying to know where you stand in Christ, eh? I can help you with that.
After or before. Doesn't matter. Works do not save you and lack of works does not re-damn you after you're saved. I sure do. You're faith can die, but your salvation can't. If your salvation could die from lack of works, then you're salvation ultimately rests upon your works, which contradicts what Jesus said. John 6:28-29 Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." So "faith" really means "works"? When Jesus said "believe" in the scripture above, He really meant "live". Why didn't He just say that then? Yes we should all seek to stop, but succeeding at that is utterly impossible ...even for someone as holy as you. Romans 3:22-24 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. One sin. Ten thousand sins. There is no difference. Yes, This is an important belief among Jehovah's Witnesses. I don't believe in separate places for different people. I believe all who have been saved by grace are going to heaven. Also "works-based" efforts to right oneself with God are a major belief. And I don't agree at all.
Outside of the original language editions what ones would NOT have an issue? The fact that two of the three religions from that area and time disagree and all of the other religions from the other areas and times would give reason to wonder. There are more whose faith disagrees than agree which means either the majority is wrong and the message is weaker than one should expect from the one true religion or this is not the one true path.
Sure it does. Two different things and two different dispositions being observed by the Father. Didn't say they did and why do keep trying make to it sound like I am trying to say that. Give it up!! Didn't say that either!! Can't you read? Depending on "what" will it remain secure if I walk away from Christ? Will He drag me back against my will? Again, ....works for salvation is not the issue. Works for maturing unto son-ship IS. John 6:28-29 Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." Yes, And what does that mean to you? Jesus was speaking to the disciples, most of whom left Him after this discourse because, you see, He was speaking of intimacy with the Father through Himself. Works, in this case, had to do with becoming one with Him, in union with the Father. See Jn 17. What do you believe the evidence of this would be he would be looking for if it was you He was giving His answer to? Would you also walk away from Him? As it applies to allegiance unto the Father, yes? Here is works set for you if you can see it: Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he sees the Father do: for what things soever he does, these also does the Son likewise. John 5:19 (KJV) Do you have such relationship with the Father to understand what Jesus means for you to acheive in and by Him? That is what redemption is all about. Understanding such detail is what studying the Bible is alll about. Interested? Lets be accurate: Progress to end our sinning is part of what becoming a son unto the Father is all about. Progress must be made and evident that progress is revealed in us that Father can proceed further in our development as a son. Question: Have you read any about Roman adoption as Paul speaks of it? How well I know that passage. I own it. Yes, I know.... but this is still not about salvation, is it?... not on my part. I hope you are correct, even for the JW's. Nor I. Seems there can be agreement if we can sort some of this out. What does Romans 3.9-18 say to you? I think if we can find agreement there we can take the next step. Ok?
But has the message been altered regardless of which one you may wish to question. I am assume of course the canonized scriptures. That's what really matters. Agree on the essentials and disagree on the non-essentials. I have no problem with that arrangement. Speak of them. The Greeks were, by reasoning out lifes issues, always looking for God and the Hebrews were always trying to make life practical as they understood God. What other societies of that day in the area did you have in mind? I personally don't know many who think beyond their own front door who can suppport their reasoning for dissagreement. There is no depth to most reasoning under even a nominal scrutiny. Thanks for your kind reply
